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Edited by illuzian:
9/20/2017 7:24:44 AM
316
The raid should need coordination but not perfection
After spending a significant chunk of my weekend completing the raid with various PUGs, and putting aside the pitiful reward and the abundance of glitches and bugs I'm feeling quite salty.
I absolutely agree that a "normal" difficulty raid should include some difficulty and coordination, but it shouldn't require perfection from multiple people at once or insane revive mechanics.
Calus' shadow room for example, requires 3 people - half the raid group to coordinate perfectly, if you're unlucky to get an overly keen Psion spawn and shoot you up in the air - that's a wipe, something that should be required only for hard mode.
The hub room is also tedious, no checkpoints is a bit of a joke and having to navigate the sewers is just as grating.
The death tokens+timers make it exceptionally unforgiving - again something that should be reserved for hard mode.
The difficulty, tedium, and perfection required is insane - I can't imagine what the hard mode raid will require. Probably 10 Psions in shadow realm, even beefier adds, more adds, 50 different phases and all while needing to cure cancer and solve the worlds geopolitcal issues...
The raid needs to be more forgiving - if the intention was to make the raid more accessible, it most definitely isn't. There's no way someone who hasn't previously raided (50% or something according to Bungie) will enjoy it or be easily pulled through.
It probably would even be enjoyable if it wasn't for the insane expectations on people to perform an exacting repetetive task. All this while coordinating it with others with a plethora of bugs and glitches making it even more tedious.
EDIT: To the people predictably saying it's endgame content and should require perfection - it should require a level of skill, coordination, and ability but it shouldn't be unrecoverable if 1 of 3 people die or make a mistake - I mean the shadow realm has a lot of stuff going on in it for those 3 people to focus on, all while throne room has a lot of adds. In addition - there's a plethora of bugs that can cause wipes which is amplified by the number of people that can seriously screw up the run.
If the raid needs to require perfection - what's the point of hard mode and challenge modes then? Surely you can stroke your epeen by doing those as opposed to having the expectation that everyone has a team of 6 with equal skill, comprehension and ability.
This mechanic driven raid has a lot of things to multitask (shadow realm) and a huge amount of coordination - if you have a friend who might be casual and dies a lot you're certainly not pulling him through - he's leaving.
The whole point of this raid was for it to be more accessible according to Bungie, in that they undoubtably failed. Bungie wants 100% of people to clear this raid but with the trophy percentage (2.7% or something on PSN) that's not going to happen.
Shameful plug: If you're able to play in the AU/NZ timezone and are one PS4 feel free to check out Noise Marines: https://www.bungie.net/en/ClanV2?groupid=1257423 might make the raid easier
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2 RepliesGood feedback but those that have never done a raid that say it's too hard, don't actually know the meaning of a "DIFFICULT" raid until they've done Molten Core or OG Naxx from WoW. Literally makes you want to scrape your eyes out. lmao
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3 RepliesOnly problem with raid is when my shadow realm friends all mumble their symbol at the same time and the throne team is like "Dog, axe, WHAT??" while avoiding lots of death
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The raid isnt that hard, im a D1 week 1 player, i have not completed any raid in his week release, crota like 2 weeks after, VoG like a month, oryx like 2 weeks to and aksis the 2nd week... Whit my clan did the entire raid 2 parts on wednesday, and on friday we finished the raid, in my clan there are like 2/6 casuals, and when we understand the mecanics then it was easy, we kill calus in 5 dps phases, we didnt have overpowerd guns, no celestial nighthawk ... The raid DOESNT need any change, and if u cant completed it because of your lfg team, FIND yourself a grupo of persons whit u can enjoy the game whitout complaining that it is to dificult, in hard mode in all raid u cant revive, and not to die is not that hard .. I hate how D comunity complain about everything that they cant complete ... In 2 weeks all those people that are complaining about the how hard the raid is would have already completed it ... And the raid isnt a must, if u dont like it, then DONT PLAY IT ....
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Agreed with some of your points this didn't feel like a normal raid. I finally beat it after going through several teams. I can only imagine what prestige mode would be like
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1 ReplyEdited by Yiruz: 9/19/2017 12:46:28 PMIn oryx if 1 of the plataforms man die, was a wipe, nobody complain about that, the raid is good and it doesnt need any change
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I totally disagree. Firstly, this is the first week of the raid so most people who you find off of lfg are gonna be not that great at understanding the raid. Also most of the proper ways of how to do the encounters haven't been found yet. Finally this raid feels fun and challenging and feels like a totally new and truly awesome experience like no other in destiny. If you don't want to spend your time in this raid then simply don't do it but don't pressure people to make it easier because for people like me, I believe it's difficulty is perfect for the rewards that you get.
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I want to fight aliens not Bungie. When I'm picking up an aura to stand on a plate to lower soap to raise purple things so they can be destroyed I'm fighting Bungie. When I'm getting teleported to another dimension with a giant sucking head to call out symbols to keep from getting sucked to death so we can destroy skulls to get a damage buff to damage the boss I'm fighting bungie.
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4 RepliesPerfection seems like a bit of a stretch, i mean honestly it doesn't require [b]perfection[/b]. Requiring [b]perfection would require you to finish everything in one phase.[/b] So one chance to shoot censors in pools, one chance to build stacks and kill the all the dogs without ever going to the safe room, and only one trip to the shadow realm on Calus. That would be requiring [b]perfection[/b], getting the option of stretching the fight over multiple phases allows for hiccups to be recovered from. Which means not being [b]perfect[/b] but completing it anyway. Just because it is hard for you doesn't always mean you have to play [b]perfectly[/b] to complete it.
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Edited by Weeksay: 9/19/2017 11:21:00 AMU have a very low standard for perfection it would seem
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1 ReplyThe raid is already easy , people complaining about it being hard is stupid , they need to make the raids more challenging not easier, it's supposed to be a challenge
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It's just too many puzzles, I prefer dpsing and gear checks than sanity checks.
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So many people suck ass. This raid is easy as shit and only requires proper communication and common sense. But I do agree that normal mode should be more forgiving for casuals who have terrible thumbs. Normal should be easily done by anyone 300 light plus. Hard mode should be where it's actually challenging.
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17 RepliesAlmost every trial has something that pushes the line too far to be called normal. Royal pools is the only encounter that allows you to align 3 people and rotate. Even if you die its manageable. Gaunlets if you die at the running section the 30 second death counter wipes the team so everyone has to have perfect jumping. Pleasure gardens needs you to be super cordinated far too much for a lfg group and know the route of the dogs, but the dogs are buggy. Theres times you can walk past and the dog is looking at you but does nothing. Other times it runs and finds you hiding without you showing yourself. Calus has psions that are launching into the air and very aggressive at hiding. There is literally no need to be launching people into the air and wiping them. The fight on its own is difficult, holding the boss room and punching the right psion. The people in the shadow room have to call and manage their movement forward then kill as many skulls as they can. Then everyone dps . Theres so much challenge why add more moving parts example revive system , and psion launching people. This whole raid left a bad taste in my mouth after I played destiny 1 since beta.
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[quote]I can't imagine what the hard mode raid will require. Probably 10 Psions in shadow realm, even beefier adds, more adds, 50 different phases and[b] all while needing to cure cancer and solve the worlds geopolitcal issues...[/b][/quote] This made me LOL
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I'm not raiding, I understand the loot system is crap!! I rather do EVERYTHING ELSE instead. My .02....
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3 RepliesThanks Illuzian, I feel the same. My clan is something like 0-400 in 12 hours clearing the dogs. A large group of experienced D1 raiders at 285+ Power are no match for this difficulty. Our clan leader eventually took to LFG to finish the raid, and the rest of have to wait until guided games to clear ourselves with other clans. Not a good experience.
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Edited by Lights90: 9/19/2017 2:43:25 AMWhy do so many people believe we need a high percentage of players to clear the raid the first week? I would argue the raid in its current state is too easy, and will lose its lust shortly for many. I would have loved there to be two additional boss fights that are equally difficult to Calus.
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Better loot, more ammo dropping. Fix that and it's fine
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5 RepliesIt seems like strikes are best suited for you.
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Stick to patrol missions unless that takes too much coordination as well
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I actually enjoyed the raid. It did eat 8/9 hours of my weekend and I did it in a couple of goes. But I liked that. People just got so used to breezing through the raids in 30 or 40 mins at the end of D1 they forget the investment that others --sword and relic guys I'm looking at you -- put in. Doing four raids in the time I now take doing one is ok, by Christmas we'll all be kn9cking it out in an hour or less and complaining about DLC 1
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2 RepliesMy only complaint is the loot, I want to be rewarded for passing a section not given tokens and a key, I'd rather get my loot right when I beat an area rather than later from a vendor but other than it's a fun raid
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Heh, kings fall
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I like the concept and idea of this raid, but it is by far, the least enjoyable. Disappointed for sure, I was expecting a vault of Glass kind of raid ( the awesomeness of it, not a reboot) for d2's first. Hopefully they can rebound with the next one.
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1 ReplyWhat was the average light Level? I ask because with less than 48 hrs in on my 4th play through my Warlock is 300 without having raided. I just followed my own advice. 1. Play story until unlock IO. 2. Heroic Public Events until LV 15. 3. Finish Story, but do not talk to anyone in tower. 4 Heroic Public Events until 20, and 265 Plus light. 5. Begin talking to NPCs and complete more powerful rewards.
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This raid isn't even hard idk why everyone is complaining about difficulty (loot could use an adjustment tho)
