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Edited by Tetrafy:
7/22/2017 11:17:08 PM
39
D2 PVP: Higher TTK leads to an overall lower skillgap. Cozmo please read.
So this is my opinion based on around 20 hours of beta time. There seems to be a ton of back and forth on TTK. So because the ttk is higher than destiny 1 it forced a teamshot meta. Essentially individual skill does not exhist because by the time you post a flank and shoot one guy the team will turn around and kill you in seconds. So thus forces you to stay with you team at all times or lose. No bait and switches no flanks no individual skill. Because believe it or not if you become limited to what you can do and less variables of combat are avilable the skill gap is lowered. Think of this analogy, an open world game vs a game that is linear. With verticality with the open world it opens the possibility of more options hence raising skill gap. So essentially if the ttk is raised even to inbetween d1 and d2 this would fix this. A few other notables include increased super rate for better play ie 2 supers a game perhaps a 3rd for players playing well obj caps. It seems many good players ie luminosity are on board with lower ttk increasing the skill gap. Opinions?
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#feedback
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You are wrong because a lower one just means who ever sees 1st wins.
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6 RepliesThis is so wrong. I get tons of 1v1s where gun skill absolutely comes in to play. Also, higher ttk means a greater skill gap. If a gun 2 shots instead of 4 shots, that means it takes a lot less consistency to get a kill, equating a smaller gap between tiers of skill.
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3 RepliesDo you think positioning is not a skill?
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1 ReplyFlanking is a very important tactic when two teams of opponents are confronted. A proper flank is when both attacks are coordinated at the same time so that the defending party can't focus on both at the same time. A proper flank only needs a single flanking member to properly execute but it can be easily failed if the flanking member is uncoordinated with their team and/or is acting out of time. You're right, lower lethality for weapons can lead to lower skill ceilings. The same however can also be said about higher levels of lethality. There is an aspect of skill in both categories.
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41 RepliesYou have it backwards. High TTK means more skill. High TTK = Halo. Low TTK = COD. Halo skill > COD skill. High TTK means fewer lucky kills, means the team with better tactics and map control wins. less chance to score loads of kills by running a route and twitching double headshots like an automated aim-bot. If you mindlessly flank without coordinating with your team and get slaughtered because the enemy didn't have anything to focus on while you "flanked", you are a bad player and deserve to be killed repeatedly until you grasp the concept of a coordinated flank, where you time your engagement with a simultaneous attack from the front. It's a teamplay meta. learn it and learn to have fun. You are asking for the skill ceiling to be lowered, not raised.
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I looked through a bunch of the comments and didn't see anything about bloOM. My apologies if I missed it, but if they remove bloOm it makes the optimal TTK hit more frequently and constantly. Which consequently speeds up gameplay, makes it more fun, and removes frustrations. Also, I can't understand the reasoning that increasing TTK makes it less skillful. It's simple math. Taking more bullets to kill only gives you more chance to miss. Hence widening the skill gap. If I'm more skillful at aiming than the guy I'm shooting at, I win that fight more times than not. It also gives me more chances to make him miss by strafing. Kinda sounds like the definition of skill in a FPS, right?
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1 ReplyI think the higher TTK is great. Just hope they make hand cannons a bit more effective. The pulse rufles are easily the meta in this beta.
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5 RepliesI think it removes skill and fun. I've had a few 1v1 battles, but not many. The 1st person to land a shot normally wins. Very unsatisfying, underwhelming, sour. I keep trying to play for an hour or 2 each day see if it gets better. There are things that I like about it, but not enough to keep me playing. It doesn't matter to me. I think with this type of meta it will die quick and shut up some of the people that always cry use your primary, when many of us never had a problem getting primary kills. It's such a snooze-fest I don't see how this setup could survive for long. Of course we don't really know how other weapons, exotics etc. are going to affect game play. I think they made PVP suck on purpose, so when you get some kewl sheznet it would feel awesome. But who knows I could be dreaming. PVE seems so horrible, I'm not sure how it could be saved without pushing out the release.
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3 RepliesI like the higher TTK better. It increases the skill gap. A skilled player now has the chance to react and win through skill. I also like team play being more incentivized. This was one of the changes I actually viewed positively, along with the weapon changes.
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2 RepliesNo one cares about skill in PvP. Except for Sweaties, that is. Go play Overwatch.
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2 RepliesThe irony is that I'm coming fresh off of Titanfall 2, where the time to kill is "Whoa, I blinked. When did I die?" It's hilarious because in Destiny 2, it sounds like people don't like high time to kill, while in Titanfall everyone complained that there wasn't any time to actually react if someone saw you run through a door. You'd just get instant death zapped by an 1100 rpm submachine gun. Weird how different gameplay makes for different problems in terms of balance. This comment was also just a funny observation on my part, rather than anything really profound to say about my thoughts on a high ttk specifically.
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10 RepliesYou can't do a mindless flank and clean up. You have to be really aware of your team and time it so you pinch them. I have a few problems with the beta but PvP isn't one of them. Imo the PvP is excellent.
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3 RepliesEdited by HurMedic: 7/23/2017 1:27:13 AMBeen trying to explain this since May. It's pointless. People don't listen or think. I've given up, you might consider throwing in the towel also. Talking sense to the senseless... sigh... I've only been playing FPS games for 20 years so what do I know? Edit: Yup, down voted to 0 real quick. Understanding, teaching & discussing high level FPS mechanics just doesn't work at Bnet. Stay salty <3
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3 RepliesEdited by NYDIBS: 7/22/2017 10:08:15 PMThe slower ttk is just annoying bc someone seems to spawn in and kill me while I'm shooting someone else This game is not competitive. Team shooting does not require skill at all I really wish they didn't make all playlists 4v4. I get it's supposed to be competitive but there should be a casual playlist
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1 Replyi'm gonna say this: i don't give a flying fvkc what luminosity says, or any other YTer or streamer. But i agree with YOU. So, forget what the ego-driven streamer community says and just go with YOUR observation, which is completely correct in my observation. :) The idea that "team shooting=skill" is about as dumb as anything anyone has ever said on here and you are right to point this out. It's another of the many ways that this game is being simplified for a wider audience that doesn't know any better: i.e------> kids. They turned Destiny's pvpv into a kid's game, while simultaneously trying to find a path into esports. The lack of crucial vision and the desire to appeal to too many types of gamers will backfire on Bungie, because you can't have both. When you try to create a game for "everyone", you end up making it for "no one".
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1 ReplyCompletely agree. They need to fix this ASAP.
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1 ReplyHalo says otherwise play some real native low multiplayer games
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2 RepliesIt is a team based game, go figure. TTK=The Taken King T2K=time to kill
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14 RepliesYou do realize that in real combat you actually do stay in teams not just run off on your own... Charging off after someone in the real world will probably not only get you killed but get your whole team killed... Also group fire was a thing in destiny 1 also. Just it was quicker so you just were suddenly dead without knowing what happened.
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2 RepliesIn my time playing the Beta I have had plenty of team shot situations but I have never been one to team shoot myself so I managed to find plenty of solo shot situations... And no lower time to kill (like the Destiny 1 Meta) only increases the skill gap for people who learn and perfect the Cheese and people who pressed and got the quick first shot... But to me that does not represent overall skill... I think higher TTK means you have to actually earn your kill and cannot simply shadestep in get a quick 2 or 3 shots and then shadestep out... You have to actually plan your attack and broaden your situational awareness... There will obviously be a learning curve when things change but in the end if a player is skilled enough the skill gap will widen even more because the lesser player won't stand a chance to have to actually hang in there and earn their kills. While a skilled player will be able to dominate because he/she has the skill to take out a player that is harder to kill
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1 ReplyEdited by FL0W: 7/23/2017 8:48:32 AMI agree. Also, a faster TTK on Primaries would make all Special weapon or Ability nerfs unnecessary. Primaries should kill in 0,6-0,8s. Slower than in CoD, faster than in D1. Not even slower than in D1 which was 0,8-1s. D2 has like 1,5-2s, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know the correct numbers...but it's definitely shit.
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1 ReplyI have mixed views on ttk so far. The game rewards for you playing as a team which leads to a more competitive PVP (better communication, teamwork etc). It's not impossible to find someone in a 1v1 as well. But i think a slightly lower ttk could benefit crucible. In regards to super: increase super generation but 5% it will be good. Abilities are in a good spot though. Not too much spam but you usually don't find yourself in the position of having no nade or melee
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13 RepliesTo summarize you're saying that in this team game playing as a team now significantly disadvantages the non team player? Or are you saying that the skill that people need to learn is to play as a team even when on a team of randoms? For sure the era of that guy who used to roam the map playing control as rumble is over...
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3 Repliesdisagree, high TTK is the way to go im all for punishing casual spastics who run off and do their own thing at the expense of the team and the objective
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6 RepliesI have to disagree. Right now team shooting is rampant because the beta has only one map for both modes. Playing the same map over and over by yourself gets boring real quick. So most are in fireteam with coordination. Once the game goes live however if you want to exercise your individual skill than that's what the casual playlist is for which is less likely to have stacked teams while. Teamwork will obviously be more important in the competitive playlist but that was obviously the intention. I personally like the ttk promotes learning the map and the best routes to flank and get the drop on people but like I said with only two maps people will most likely be playing on premade teams
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1 ReplyEdited by johnleatherman: 7/23/2017 4:04:01 AMYep skill isn't a part of D2 at all. Communication will still win you games for sure but raw skill will be a very small factor.
