I'm just gonna say it. If Dice had developed Destiny, the Faction Wars game mode would have made the final cut and we would be having dogfights with our ships right now. Our guardians would be climbing into captured spider tanks with wicked faction paint jobs to wreck each other in massive battles on epic landscapes. Now, i'm not expecting that level of epic (though it would be nice), but i don't think something like a 10vs10 game mode is too much to ask for in a modern AAA fps multiplayer game. Bungie doesn't exist in a bubble, it's okay to make comparisons with the competition. The pvp system Bungie uses is a joke. Once apon a time, we were told that this franchise would be epic, but there is nothing epic about the crucible. 4vs4 was great.....in 2001. Why is it that other AAA fps developers can run large scale sandbox matches, but Bungie couldn't even handle 6vs6 without it's peer to peer system massively favoring the host, outright booting players way too often and creating constant red bar lag so ridiculous that some players were seemingly warping around the maps? I don't buy this "in Destiny 2 we're focusing on competitive esports" crap that i see white knights using as a defense for dropping all player counts to 4vs4 in pvp, it's garbage. Even if it were true, if the pvp system were solid they'd still include a larger casual sandbox mode in Destiny 2 pvp. A wide variety of pvp modes is standard fare in modern fps gaming. Instead of fixing what was broken I think it was just cheaper to drop the player count and call it a day. I suspect there are far more players who just want to jump into some fun than there are who want serious sweaty tiny arena matches, F that nonsense. Some of us have kids, if i need to go afk for a minute or two to clean up puke, i'm gonna do that. In a tiny 4vs4 game mode that's gonna hurt my team, and that makes me feel bad, nobody wants to play a game that makes them feel bad. Whearas with a larger sandbox mode i wouldn't even be missed. If Bungie seriously wants to aspire to join the esport community i think that's great, but don't try to force it on all of us. Build it up on the side, or if Destiny 2 is good enough to be worthy, let it grow out of the game naturally. I followed the development of this franchise for years before it's tumultuous launch and i am still in love with the idea of Destiny, but having played the D2 beta i'm left disappointed. I had hoped that D2 would be a fresh start, an opportunity to improve not just pve but pvp too. Instead we got this, [i]"We're moving all activities in pvp to 4vs4" -Luke Smith[/i], an admission of failure in the understanding and execution of modern fps pvp gaming. The crucible in D2 is nothing but two steps backward. Bungie isn't supposed to be a 3rd rate developer, but in the pvp department they don't even come close to what others have achived. Maybe the idea of Destiny is just too much for these guys to handle, a bridge too far.