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6/15/2017 6:39:00 PM
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Bungie, About some of your Lore Decisions/Comments

This is my own rant, and I take credit for everything I say, however, I also think that much of this lore community and my clan have many of these same feelings. This is related to the recent PC Gamer interview with Luke Smith. Link is below: http://www.pcgamer.com/destiny-2s-luke-smith-on-pc-features-pvp-new-subclasses-and-more/2/ Bungie, I've played your game since the beginning, from Day One, and I still play it quite often today. Yes, there have been times I've criticized it albeit for whatever reason. I have also defended it countless times over to people who gave up on it early and turned an eye. What did they hate about Destiny? It's story. But time and time again I told them that there was more. I told them that hidden away in the grimoire cards they collected, existed a beautifully complex, engaging, cliffhanging, and immersive story. Most of us here know it simply as Destiny's lore. When you're someone such as myself who immerses themselves in the lore, you begin to see that theirs more than meets the eye to Destiny's characters and overall story. You begin to develop unique feelings about each one, understand many of the plot arcs that may come to fruition, and most importantly, understand the deeper meaning to the story and all of its characters. In my opinion, this section of the community is truly special, because to us Destiny is more than just a game, it's a universe full of unique characters, a progressive story, and compelling history. It's also in my opinion the section most passionate about Destiny, because we take the time and effort to learn and understand all we can about this game's story. I'm really not sure if people like Luke Smith completely understand what we do, so I'll try my best to put it in a reasonable perspective. A lot of us here, most perhaps, spend hours upon hours, [b]days upon days[/b] reading and studying each of the game's many grimoire cards. We write posts about them, form theories, have debates which can often morph into arguments. We share amongst each other our ideas and opinions about the lore. Others of us take their knowledge to YouTube, like Myelin and Byf who dedicate practically their entire channel and much of their time to creating quality lore videos for all of us. Some of us even make art or write fanfic about pieces of lore. This doesn't even count all the theories and speculations we think about in our heads, the various things that never make it into the forum posts but that our time is still often dedicated to. So when someone such as Luke Smith confidently states that they, [i]"Exited the Exo Stranger effectively,"[/i] a character who we don't know why is fighting a war with the Vex, know who she's talking to over the comms, seems to link very well to Maya Sundaresh, and that we overall really know nothing about, by having her give us a gun and then head off somewhere in time? Additionally by comparing Mara Sov, queen of one of the three main races in Destiny and undoubtedly one of the most important as well as mysterious character in the game, to cosplay? Even the Darkness, what we've been lead to believe is the main antagonist and highly important to Destiny, suddenly just decided to throw it away?[b]It really is a big slap in the face to the lore community[/b]. I get you're trying to clean up the mess of the original story and bring to us in D2 a new and exciting one about the Cabal. But far from everything in the original story, as we lore people understand, is worthless and worth being tossed. For all that that story was, I thought it all meant something, that every character and every plot arc introduced no matter how seemingly insignificant had some role, some purpose for existing. [b]Tell me, tell us, Bungie. Were we wrong?[/b] I won't lie when I say the recent statements by Luke Smith not only about the two above characters but about the lore of Destiny itself concern me some for the future of lore in this game. Already you're removing grimoire cards which means I'm not sure how amazing stories like that of Thorn/Last Word will happen. But the fact that you've decided to just toss a potentially important character and that could do it to any Destiny character or plot arch worries me. How do we know now if we'll ever see Savathûn and Xivu Arath? Saint-14? Hell, even The Nine? Do we spend all this time solving the mysteries of these characters, simply so you can throw them out whenever you feel like? That makes our time feel wasted, that all we do here in the lore community is pointless, and will simply culminate in it all just being swept away. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but things like this start small but can get bigger. It can make us question, [i]"Why are we even doing this?"[/i] and [i]"Why should we continue to make our lore theories, posts, and videos into D2 and beyond if this is what will happen?"[/i] No, I don't really think we will stop, but I have no doubt these questions and others are going through many of our heads right now. But once again, it's a slap in the face to the lore community. Perhaps Bungie, your most immersed fans. This has been a long rant, and typically I don't do things like this, but lore is a passion of mine so I felt it to be necessary. I'm hopeful. Hopeful that things like the Reef characters and perhaps even the Exo Stranger could be introduced in the DLC for D2. Im hopeful that the decisions Bungie has decided to make regarding lore in D2 will prove to be good ones. I hope that lore will be twice as good in D2 as it was in Destiny. Most importantly however, I hope that the lore community remains as strong and productive as it is now, perhaps even more so in the future. So as I wrap this up, I say to you Bungie, enhance the lore experience for Destiny, inside and out of the game. But please, don't screw it over and more importantly, screw us in the process. A little bit of advice as well: Don't start something you're not going to finish. [b]Variks[/b] [b]Bump this[/b] please if you like/agree.
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#Destiny #lore

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  • Destiny 2 is honestly a downgrade from Destiny 1- and that's saying something.

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  • Edited by JRandom1: 6/17/2017 1:02:13 AM
    I love lore. I've posted my tinfoil theories, but let's be honest vanilla Destiny was a Frankenstory from the get go. Many amazing, talented writers cobbled together a univers on the back of cards trying to fix it for 3 years. Now in 2 they are pulling together a tight narrative for this chapter. Maybe they are over compensating by simplifying this story or maybe Luke Smith can't write a big space opera I don't know. But I still belive that Bungie does listen to its fans/costumers and cares. I don't think any other company would have worked so hard to fix a game as messed up as vanilla Destiny. Most companies would have pulled the plug and said -blam!- it (like ME Andromeda) and started a new game (hello Anthem). So I hope if we can stay calm and not threaten to quit, sue, or burn down Bungie HQ. Yet keep letting them know we are interested in these charecters that Luke Smith is writing off we will see them again,

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  • Edited by dano the hippie: 6/17/2017 7:48:30 PM
    How about you give it a try. Most people like the idea Of having in game lore. Hell it is what we asked for. And they don't talk about the stranger but do talk about so many other characters. They can't talk about every character in the lore. And via the cutscenes we have seen there is already more character and depth than was ever In the first game with out reading the cards. Majority of the player base doesn't even use these forums. Instead of whining about what we are loosing how about looking into what we are getting? I think it is going to be great and going to attract more players to destiny no matter what this toilet bowl of a forum says.

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    • Edited by Kyros_117: 6/20/2017 10:59:33 AM
      For the grimoire i think they should have an in game way of "reading" it or discovering it. Like i know how the community came together and made the ishtar collective website that houses all the lore of destiny. In a way of showing appreciation to the community, bungie should at least attempt to recreate that in game. They should implement a mission and social space or like a hub that allows us to look up what we already know lore-wise. Maybe visit a library or a certain place ran by warlocks who collect info. Would be prettt nice to visit the ishtar collective or an informational social space to catch up on the history of the guardians and other theories/myths.

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    • Bump to read later. Also on another note lore videos I've watched are great! Just when you start thinking Destiny is getting stale or ho hum watching a few great lore videos draws you right back in and helps to show how much there is to Destiny. There's a ton of material still to use. Thanks to all those content creators who have put a ton of time and effort into their channels and videos. Such videos really do help to get people interested in the world. I really hope the Bungie doesn't erase everything and start over from scratch that'd be a shame.

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    • And yet still fans don't dare try to have their own take on the Darkness. Nooo, we must write more retellings of the Vanilla game with OC's. It's so open-ended people can do practically anything with it.

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    • I don't claim to speak for everyone, but I doubt anyone who quit/stalled in Year 1 is waiting for an explanation re: The Exo Stranger. If you're still playing today, I doubt you kept playing to hear the end of that story. The concept of return on investment is better served by building new lore in a new world, not circling back to bring old threads forward. Bungie has to prove itself to a much, much wider audience than a "lore community."

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    • This whole game has become demoralizing to me. I feel like I've wasted over 3000 hrs of my time trying to develop characters that I thought were going to be around for a while. Worked to get complete sets of gear, increase my grimoire score, increase faction reps, etc. to be told that absolutely none of it matters. Now not even the lore is going to be relative? Good luck with that Bungle. I can hear your preorders dropping as I'm texting this. Anyone know the release date of Anthem?[spoiler]Bungle killed Destiny[/spoiler]

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      • "Exited the Exo Stranger effectively," That was a really interesting comment by the guy. It either shows a complete disconnect from fans, or he's just not being honest. Both are not good. I would have much rather him say, "We were unhappy with that character/direction, so we are dropping it." I would have at least understood a comment like that.

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        • His response about the Exo Stranger actually confirms a theory I've had about the lead devs for a little while. They view narrative elements (like characters) as plot devices, the design story like they design levels or boss fights. Take Eris for exemple, she was introduced in TDB so that we could learn about Crota's imminent return and stop it, then finish what her fireteam started and actually kill him. That's all fine, nothing wrong with that, she's "Crota's Bane" and guides you in the footsteps she once took. But come TTK, another Hive expansion, they need a character to tell players about the new hive stuff. Eris knows hive stuff, she'll do right ? Well no, she doesn't. Eris knew about Crota's disciples because she encountered them, and she knew how to start the raid because she started it before. She knew some things about the hive on the moon because Toland spoke to her about them. But in TTK she suddenly speaks the Hive language, can feel Ascendants across interplanetary distances, can do Hive magic, knows who Oryx is and what Taken are, knows how the Dreadnaught's systems and spells work, the story of why the Dark Blade in imprisoned and how said prison works...How exactly ? She says she knows how to control Ruptures because "Toland spoke of statues". When has he spoken to her about statues that control portals on the Dreadnaught ?

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          • Tldr; Sniveling nerd is upset.

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          • What gets me is how he says "exited effectively" when he's talking about the Stranger. No! You didn't! You can't just write her out without telling a story to begin with.

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          • Edited by MysticJon: 6/16/2017 3:19:47 AM
            This is just another sign for me that Destiny 2 won't be worth it, in my opinion. Instead of working on lore and story answers for things like The Darkness and The Exo Stranger, ah -blam!- it let's just remove them completely. No one cares about them right? Oh what's that? You all wanted the Grimoire to be in-game? Well we actually just removed the lore altogether, so we have nothing to acrually put in-game. Also the recent announcement that the Guided Games system will only be usable for Normal Mode activities. So we won't be able to use it for Heroic activities. Or Hard activities. Or Nightfall. So yea, as people have been saying all throughout the lifespan of Destiny 1, just give us -blam!-ing matchmaking Bungie like ever other game on the planet. You say your players are smart, but don't trust them to be able to use a matchmaking system. Like in every other game on the planet. We listen to you Bungie, you can't make contradictory statements and then not expect people to call you out on them. We're smart, remember? We pay attention to what you say. And what you say, unfortunately, is a load of bullshit right now. And not only that, it's bullshit that you apparently think that we can't smell. What it all boils down to is this. You guys spent a lot of time and effort crafting a story and a universe for Destiny 1. A story and a universe that many players spent a lot of time in, appreciating all that you created. And apparently that was all for nothing because those plot threads are now being scrapped. So why should I purchase and play and appreciate the story and universe of Destiny 2? What's to say that you won't scrap the lore of Destiny 2 when it comes time for Destiny 3? You've basically told your players not to get invested because it could all be taken away at any moment for no reason. It's such a bad marketing decision and it truly baffles me why you would do this.

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            • So the story is just advertisement bs? Figured.

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            • http://www.gamesradar.com/bungie-admits-it-had-no-clue-what-the-darkness-was-in-destiny/?utm_content=buffer6e699&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer-oxmfb Interesting...

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            • Luke Smith should be forbidden to speak to people about the game forever, he jus undermine everything people love of destiny, and no, that's not the crucible, men I even feel cheated whit my preorder.

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              • Edited by LovelyBones-XVII: 6/17/2017 9:51:15 AM
                Word. I've been looking forward to The continuation of The Exo Stranger's s story. My friends and I would theorize about to whom she was speaking . (I always thought it was us in the past or the future ) Bungie why you take this from us ??

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                • Just gonna put this here because I've already had a run in with one of the kinds of people who I am about to address this message to. We ARE NOT arguing against the lore being in game. We ARE arguing that destiny 1 lore questions/arc SHOULD be answered/continued in destiny 2 Got it? Hope so.

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                • Edited by BARACK OBAMA: 6/18/2017 2:51:10 AM
                  I respectfully disagree, I believe this a better direction to take the lore. We've wanted the lore and real story in the game since the launch of Destiny 1. They could have stopped at a Codex but they went beyond that and have made characters that will deliver a cinematic experience to the lore. And anything that can't​ be explained by a character will likely be given through the numerous scannable objects they have added to the game. As for the Exo Stranger, giving her an exit is less of a scrapping of the character, but more giving her an end to her story, but the beginning and middle of it up for explanation. TTK supplied us an exotic quest, Grimoire, and scannable objects about her. If they wanted to make us forget and scrap her character entirely, they could have done so, but they instead lead us on. TTK was originally meant to lead into Destiny 2, and the fact he (Like Smith) mentions this as an exit for her, means that she will likely be given a more to her story. As for the Darkness, a big problem many people had with Destiny 1 was the ambiguity of the Darkness in the game, and by stepping us back, they can give us some side activities/Adventures/quests to really flesh out the Darkness further and set it up as a real villain for a future installment, and the best part about this is that everyone who plays the game this time will get in on the lore. I wouldn't be too worried about Destiny 2. Adventures, Quests, and scannable objects with the right writing can keep things mysterious, and allow people to continue theory crafting, the only difference now is that everyone can get in on the action and not have to go to the developer's website. Give it a chance. Destiny's lore community and the video channels that support it won't be going anywhere anytime soon, and if anything, it should grow due to the way Destiny 2 is handling its presentation.

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                • lol all he said was that something's will be shelved and some might not. Sure the delivery of his messages might sound worrisome but all we can do for now is wait and see when it comes to the lore.

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                • P.S This goes the same for Mara Sov and Prince Uldren, we know little to nothing about them even with HoW, most of the lore we got was about the fallen and their past and summarily, Mara was "Killed" in TTK and Uldren is stuck on Mars, so now, they can figure what to do with them in the D2 Storyline and make them matter.

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                  • The below is how I feel about the game, which I also posted multiple times elsewhere. I hope as many people that matter at bungie get to read these kinds of posts, which are everywhere. Luke Smith needs a better boss, one that's more plugged in with the actual game and community. He needs a step down in his responsibility in impacting overall game direction. He shouldn't be talking to people, period. He's not good at it. To me the way this game and series is progressing.. it's just all too bad. It just reinforces that nothing you do truly matters. In a game built on grinding and play time, where you are supposedly building your "legend".. it just shows there is no really well thought out sequence, or purpose. All the rich lore they kept taking about, built the story around - worthless. It's no different from weapons that, at one time feel special, but in time bungie destroys. Nothing we do in the future matters, it's just a point and shoot game. It will just be reworked and story shifted with no substance, no thought to continuity. And I think that's bungie's ultimate critical fail; they could have built on D1 and made everyone know they have a plan, but now there is very little reason for anyone to invest real playtime. It's truly a waste of time. People will still buy the game and play it from time to time to kill some dregs, but I think they have lost a lot of the die hard base that truly made this community. The ones that spend so much time rallying the player base - posting videos on grimoire and lore, looking into the game's potential depth. It could have been a beautiful and epic sequence, one for all time if continued to actually be built upon (more like one whole game over time)... But it's become a hollow experience, and truly meaningless. Oh well, maybe someday they will move on from Luke Smith and all the other knuckleheads that make decisions around there. Correct the vision for the game, make it more than just a basic point and shoot game. At this point, I'm rooting for D2 to fail, which is pretty sad. I think it would be best for the future of the series if they took a good long hard look at how this game was meant to play out, from the original and real bungie brainchildren.

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                    • Ok so since no one knows how to context, i'm going to explain; First, The Darkness is not being removed from the game, they have stated multiple times that it won't be the focus of Destiny 2, additionally, if they removed The Darkness, the Hive wouldn't exist (Book of Sorrows anyone?). The Darkness they are referring to is the term, not the entity/ enemy of the traveler; you know like "Minions of The Darkness"? Since The Hive are the only ones that fit under this category, since they are the only ones the worship it and are not the main threat in the game and won't be for awhile, This term won't be needed as often. Since they are starting more about other things like The cabal and other unsolved mysteries (Rasputin, Osiris, The Sunbreakers, Ouros, Cayde's relationship with Rasputin) and not just simply The Darkness, since neither do we, The Community, nor Bungie even know what The Darkness is, why keep trying to chase it around in an endless maze? The Darkness saga ended for the time being when we killed Oryx and did everything we did in TTK and the April Update (Killing their pantheon of champions, and creating the power vacuum when we killed Oryx).

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                    • Bump

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                    • [quote]So when someone such as Luke Smith confidently states that they, "Exited the Exo Stranger effectively," a character who we don't know why is fighting a war with the Vex, know who she's talking to over the comms, seems to link very well to Maya Sundaresh, and that we overall really know nothing about, by having her give us a gun and then head off somewhere in time? Additionally by comparing Mara Sov, queen of one of the three main races in Destiny and undoubtedly one of the most important as well as mysterious character in the game, to cosplay? Even the Darkness, what we've been lead to believe is the main antagonist and highly important to Destiny, suddenly just decided to throw it away?[b] It really is a big slap in the face to the lore community[/b]. [/quote] PREACH! <3

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                    • P.S This goes the same for Mara Sov and Prince Uldren, we know little to nothing about them even with HoW, most of the lore we got was about the fallen and their past and summarily, Mara was "Killed" in TTK and Uldren is stuck on Mars, so now, they can figure what to do with them in the D2 Storyline and make them matter.

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