The problem with crucible are pvetards like you who can't even hold a zone. Stop playing crucible and stick with your strikes.

My two cents is you're comparing a game that is over two years old to a game that is fresh off the shelf. For sure I would love destiny to still be fresh and current but it is not and it will not be. Destiny should be dead because destiny 2 should be out but it got delayed so they have done their best to give people a game moving forward. I can't find lobbies if it's not the daily and I often find the same people but if I was playing CoD I'd be facing this situation within the first year. I'm playing some BF1 (yes there is lag you just see it in a different way), GOW4, Ark... You talk about auto rifles - I love auto rifles and especially doctrine. They change that gun by what seems like an insignificant amount (I believe it was said to be a couple of bullets) and suddenly it drops of the face of the planet, it's either OP or it's useless. It is what it is. I always keep well rolled non meta guns because I know they will have their time and I'll dust them out of the vault. Destiny has been one of the few games that have emerged me in a social experience for as long as it has. It has its faults - every game has its faults if you're being objective. But I'm the world of video games and hardware 2yrs is a very long time. I play because of my friends. I put it down when content runs dry and I pick it back up at the next drop. I can't wait for destiny 2!!!

Don't refer to Titanfall 2 as TF2. Just don't.

I don't like playing pvp in destiny and only ever did it in destiny because I 'had to' for quests/bounties/gear. I picked up titanfall 2 and actually enjoy playing the pvp. Really fun!

I skimmed through but bump for some good points. It's sad how much time people put in this and how bad of a state it's in. To me each dlc and nerf makes it worse. Sad because I play daily and love it. Cannot play a crucible game without several red bars walking through things.

Great post

The meta is worth every second of this fight!

I agree on all points. Thanks for posting it.

Tf2 is a way better game than Destiny

Play any recent FPS and compare it with Destiny's PvP and you will say to yourself that you were stupid for playing Crucible for so long.

lol pvp sucks ass

[quote]I could write a research paper on what makes a fun multiplayer game, but instead... I'll just make a suggestion that will help you understand what I'm talking about: Objectively play a session of Destiny, a game you most likely have hours devoted to(meaning you know your way around it), and then play a session of TitanFall 2. I won't spoil anything If you haven't played this game. However, I feel that it's important that you have this experience(comparing the baseline experience of Destiny and TF2 in PVP)so that you can report your findings to the crucible sandbox team. I say this, not to bag on Destiny, but out of love. I'm confident after playing TF2, you will understand what I'm getting at with this post. I know that the team at Bungie is aware of how important it is to have a solid PVP experience. I know that considerable resources have been assigned to work on Destiny 2 and it is a critical time to get things going in the right direction. To put it bluntly, right now the crucible isn't much fun, and the community has been very vocal on what they feel are the reasons. DO NOT MISTAKE "NUMBER OF PLAYERS" FOR "PLAYER SATISFACTION". I continue to play Destiny because of the oscillation between cooperative and competitive events... When one is stale, I move to another. However, one side is, and always has been a better, more polished experience, that being PVE. Many people are here for that very reason, but at some point, the absolutely defeating feeling of the crucible becomes too much, and activity drops. I'm already seeing it on my friends list right now. It doesn't have to be this way. The entire philosophy is so off base and wrong for the crucible... And it's deeper than just bad connections, poor weapon balance, shifting metas, and limited map design. The problems with the crucible are so numerous because the entire act of crucible is counter to itself... 1. Supers and heavy weapons make the game more casual, yet we are matched aggressively by skill. We're told to "not take it seriously but the entire back-end ensures that we take it damn serious or else it's a snow ball of supers and one shot kills. 2. The entire game is based on loot, but you better use the few weapons that perform in the limited map design if you want to not be destroyed. I CANNOT believe that Auto rifles are still in the shape they are in after all this time. 3. On top of not having no options for social or casual play, we have an entire competitive mode, with content locked behind a 9-0 tournament THAT HAS ALMOST ZERO MODERATION. Dig into the paid carry scene Cozmo... What you will find there is staggering, and the situation is worse than people believe. NO COMPETITIVE GAME OR SPORT OPERATES BY HAVING PAID PROFESSIONALS COMPETING AGAINST AVERAGE JOES, and then giving them a trophy for it. It's like the Cubs playing the weekend warrior dads baseball team. Not to mention cheating... Which is related to everything wrong with trials currently. 4. There is only a few ways to play Destiny, and every change made to increase TTK and promote counter play, has resulted in the same"bait and ambush" gameplay that exists in every modern shooter. The issue is that Destiny isn't every other modern shooter, and has the potential for so much more. I understand that TF2 and Destiny are two very different games, but the common thread in PVP for both games is that players are fighting each other. If you take the time to take part in this request, pay attention to the things that make that process less stressful, and more in line with the goals set forth by BUNGIE for the crucible... A fun casual experience for players of all skill and type to enjoy. Right now fun is the last thing I would call the crucible.[/quote] Titanfall 2 is e.a. when has e.a. put out a poo game ?? Bungie needs to take notes I played destiny ALOT. Now not at all :-( . Pvp killed my experience. Way too much politics !!!!!!!!!! It's a game, fix it once and set it in stone. Stop bending to the will of unskilled or over entitled children. There losing the fans who have the money. Adults.

The absolutely defeating feeling in crucible should say you would benefit from improving. Personally, that went away after I stopped looking for excuses to not rekt and be rekt.

Bump, very detailed and calculated. Well put, couldn't have said it better myself. Hopefully Cozmo and the Bungie team heeds your words.

I just thought of something. Destiny 2 is well underway. They've already set back D2 for reasons we don't know( just they did with destiny) so playing Titanfall 2 won't mean anything to bungie. They don't take advice to kindly.

Well thought out and explained very clearly. Great post!

News flash: There is more to Destiny than PVP. I swear 90% or more posts I see on here are bitching about PVP. Destiny is actually more of a PvE centered game. I feel like they have already ruined many elements of the PVE experience already by catering to PVP players

Why are we here? Titanfall 2 has 8 levels that are only good on hard mode which most of them are just par core levels. The overall gameplay feel is 100 steps backwards from the first one. Battlefield skinned Titanfall And was released at a horrible time thinking it could compete against big Battlefield and Call of Duty.

Destiny is going to need to get their shit together to retain a large portion of it's current database. I certainly can't speak for others, but as a day one player with almost 32 days in crucible I'm sick of it. There's so many issues with crucible that are glaring and need looking at such as: Kill trading: WHY IS THIS STILL SUCH A BIG THING?! I should not be able to get a "post mortem" kill with my melee after I was shotgunned to death! Weapon "balancing": seriously, what is this? Hand cannons are not in a good spot, auto rifles are weak again, scouts are rarely used and HRoF pulses are good at pretty much encounter. Balance? What's that? Matchmaking: So many people complain about this and others say they just want to pub stomp. No.... this is not the case. Let me explain the frustrations. I have a modest 1.23 k/d and a lot of time into crucible. I have friends who have k/ds under 1.0 (~.8 I think) but we enjoy playing together. When we play together, many games turn into them getting stomped because evidently just being in the fireteam bumps up the skill it searches for. To test this, one day we played several games together then I left the fireteam for them to do a few more games. The result was much less frustration on their part because they weren't playing players high above their skill (I use this phrase loosely because again, I don't think I'm good). Now, also something that they noticed is when all of us were in a fireteam there were considerably more players lagging on the enemy team. Whether that's a result of distance or players cheating, I couldn't tell you but I can only tell you that they encountered more players lagging with me then when they played without me. abilities balancing: Bungie can you just TRY to stop doing these MASSIVE sweeping changes and adjust things a little bit at a time? ok. I'm done ranting for right now...... my bad guys.

The problem isn't even Destiny... it's Bungie's fault. They have no focus at all. Raids are so painstakingly made then ignored. They want 'more content' and then DUMP half of the game behind, to be put crudely. They give 'hundreds of new guns!!!!' and no dang fault space... because you should delete your gear in a loot based game... when nearly every other loot based game has infinitely better storage design... it's just sad. They want crucible to be serious and fun. Yet they're practically insulting us with the lack of actual control they take with their game. Cheating should just be unacceptable, plain and simple. If you can prove a cheater, you should boot a cheater. No questions asked. And for heavens sake, the whole 'name and shame' is crap because we can LOOK UP who has been cheating. It's not hard. And if people wanted to form a 'witch hunt' it would be super easy to do so. And you realize we have this little thing called youtube... again, not hard to get a clip or video up there. So dumb... Nearly no clear communication. They always 'hint' or 'tease' or 'whisper' or any other word rather than SIMPLY SAY what the heck they want or don't want to do. If they have no want to bring back the raids just SAY SO! No one likes an open ended response. But people hate when all they get is open ended responses A yes or a no is a hundred times better than, 'we are working on it' for nearly every problem they've ever even decided to comment on. Tell us something real, that you want us to know, or don't say anything at all. Pick! It'll make everyone's lives easier. Not ready to unveil something? Just don't say it then! Don't give me three weeks of 'hinting' at the same thing over and over again. Talk about pressing, already known, issues instead. Like SBMM. I don't care about how intricate or hard Bungie made it sound, with facts that people quickly show didn't hold up. Just say "No, we're not taking it down." and be done with it. It's not that hard. That's all that was required. -- No wonder that PvP keeps the game going. Because that's all they even pretend to care about. Back in HoW I wouldn't necessarily say that was the case. We had 2 whole raids with meaning and relevance, a cool new firefight setup of PoE with it's own bosses, AND a working crucible. Trials was new and not the cheater fest we see now. New takes on the customary PvE events (kind of, the ether chests were super fun to race for). And Nightfalls weren't stupid easy. But, most importantly, they KEPT BUILDING!!! Then TTK came, and the striped all of the previous year away. Literally. People wonder how 3 years worth of content can be so short? Because we only have 1 year of stuff they actually want us to do. They don't want us to do the rest of the older stuff because they literally dropped it. If they wanted us to do it they wouldn't make them neigh useless to do. And that honestly caused the biggest let go of players. No one wanted to abandon what they had 'just cause' that was how the game was going. Oh sure, they pay memoriam to their previous creations through quests that revisit the ares. But they realize this is also a game, right? A game they're soon going to drop and make irrelevant anyway? Why not bring all of that back? PvE is lack luster because it's empty. You have a game full of cool things to do. So why restrict it?

I've been over it for weeks but I just want to go flawless dammit. I know I'm good enough