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5/1/2016 2:41:08 PM
243
Hand Cannon Phantom Bullets
Hey community, just wanted to get your opinion on this as well. I am a hand cannon user and have loved them from the beginning but nothing drives me more nuts than hand cannon phantom bullets.
If you use a hand cannon then you know what I mean. You land that perfect first shot and then either your second, third or fourth shot just plan misses even though your gun is aimed straight at his head or chest.
I feel like hand cannons are close but I really feel like this need to be addressed. I forget Bungie's exact wording but it's something to the extent of taking your time with each shot. I'm sorry but that's not possible when you have people running around with guns like DoP that can mow you down almost immediately. With a hand cannon I don't have time to steady each shot to ensure it hits in these instances.
I don't mind losing a gun fight but it drives me nuts when I lose a fight that I clearly would have won had that last bullet registered.
What do you guys think?
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Yes, I agree. Handcannons (and all guns in Destiny) have what I call a "cone of RNG". Imagine a cone starting at the barrel (tip of the cone) extending outward to the effective range of the gun. When you take a shot there is a randomness as to where the bullet will land within that cone. As you get further away from the barrel, the cone widens. Handcannons have a large cone compared to other guns. And it opens up the faster you fire, making where the bullet lands a lot more random. So when a handcannon has a higher range stat, the cone is effectively narrower. While I understand the logic behind this system, it just does not work in practice. The only RNG that should come into play is if my aim is good or not. Handcannons already suffer by having short range. They should not suffer from random inacurracy. Also, shouldn't stability be the stat that determines accuracy of follow up shots? I think the "weapon sandbox" designers need rethink this.
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That's bloom they went over this in the update before TTK ...
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Never had this problem with thorn y1. Could easily snap 3 quick shots off and kill someone. That would mean I should be good with hawkmoon right?? Wrong. Phantom bullets FTW!
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I think lag is the bigger factor here. SBMM in Crucible is a no-no. Other weapons, including Mida, have horrible hit-detection in laggy games which has a far bigger influence on kill-rates/game scores than any weakness in HC base range and accuracy. It's more noticeable with low RoF weapons than bullet-hose weapons, which can still spray down a choke point of clustered enemies, merely by statistical likliehood. I think without Bungie devs flying off to the four corners of the Earth and trying to play Iron banner with/against each other for a night, I don't think they will ever agree to stick to CBMM. Along with the need to empower people with an 'everyone wins' mentality. This IB, all my crappy games were laggy as hell; good ones, all solid connections and this is absolutely reflected in the individual game results. Unlike what these forums would lead you believe, the Crucible isn't full of unbeatable gods running arround with DoP's it's mainly full of mediocre, mid-level, players often left wondering how you can be shot round corners and/or through walls...look out for that blue Suros AR, it's a through-wall killer!
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They need an accuracy buff. Bungle ruined them instead of just the two weapons affiliated with them that needed work.
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Edited by badhorse2000: 5/2/2016 11:11:42 AMThe problem is that range and accuracy (i.e. bloom) are inextricably linked in Destiny so Bungie can't increase accuracy without increasing range. That's just dumb programming design and until they separate these two stats they can never balance HCs properly.
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2 RepliesI use the old vendor version of the Lord high fixer in regular pvp pretty much exclusively for a long time now! This gun has ridiculous range and is in my opinion the best gun in the game, ever!! Due to its range it was a reliable gun fir most of the time. HCs been in a bad place since TTK, but it feels like at the moment it's particularly bad as 3 out of 4 gunfights you end up dead although you have been rapidly landing your shots, but they don't get registered!! For a shooter this is the worst possible scenario!! And bungie should address this very urgently!! It feels like you should get double the points for a HC kill right now!!!
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2 RepliesYeah i agree, sometimes you play a game and do really well then boom next game you can't hit a barn door even tho your doing nothing differently
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Didn't know this was a thing but noticed it happens a lot with a few of my handcannons, specially Hawkmoon.
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4 RepliesI've noticed that too actually. I think it has to do with the model for your gun coming back down into focus like it's ready to fire again but actually the crosshairs haven't quite shrunk back down all the way yet. You don't get a cross hair when you're aimed in so you have to rely on that visual aid of the gun snapping back down after the recoil and when that isn't consistent with the when the gun is actually at its most accurate then you run into "phantom bullets". Truly, you're just missing your shots, but in my opinion it's not because your aim is bad. It's the pacing of the shot that you have to respect. That extra millisecond of waiting can actually make the difference between you hitting and killing or missing and dying.
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It's absolutely pathetic that this was ever something implemented into this game. It is the sole reason I refuse to use hand cannons, which in year one were my main primary.
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Hit Registration on hand cannons is all about Range. The higher the range the better the hit registration. So try to get hammer forged or rifled barrel on your handcannon. (Connection can also play a roll but not as much)
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Edited by GTLargo21: 5/2/2016 11:44:56 AMBump Especially considering that the Phantom bullet happens up until almost point blank.
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Agreed, the bloom penalty was completely unwarranted for Hand Cannons. Instead of fixing the 3 problem children exotics the blanket nerf made those 3 exotic Hand Cannons the only viable options in Crucible.
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I agree with You.
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1 ReplyYep, avid first curse user and this glitch is especially painful due to the fire rate/reload speed.
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I haven't been a victim of this glitch.
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I find that using a HC that has max range eliminates this problem almost entirely.
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1 ReplyEdited by Maniac Survivor: 5/2/2016 11:20:34 AMWell, while I agree, I got to say that using a hand cannon requires a different playstyle to be effective. They work best at mid range, where Doctrine will not hit you as much and your big advantage is that you deal a lot of damage without really engaging too long into the fight. My advice for you would be to work with the envornment and push up as quickly as possible. For example, whenever I hit someone with Hawkmoon, I throw a grenade at them, go quickly into cover and push up with a shotgun. Do not use hand cannons with a sniper (unless Last word), because you are going to lose in close quarters against doctrine and such. This playstyle is especially good while using a sunsinger (one hawkmoon bullet plus grenade and shield, shotgun for cqbs) or nightstalker (smoke + hawkmoon). Give it a try, good luck.
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2 RepliesThe bloom whatever it is is crazy stupid idea, a guy hosing you down with a Doctrine in 0.8 seconds and your supposed to leave a slight delay between shots to get a kill time close to the Doctrine. What are Bungie smoking ? Just because the last word was broken last meta and Thorn had a bit too much poison burn, this did not mean the hand cannons were over powered, most legendaries HC were balanced. Until Bungie loose the crazy bloom, shall I make your shot miss effect they have killed the most fun primary in the game. I dont find bullet hoses fun.
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yep, used hawkmoon last night in trials and i got killed x amount of times bc not 1 but MULTIPLE shots never registered any damage. It's insanely ridiculous and needs to be addressed
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Still a huge problem. My Stolen Pride has 1 in 5 shots register, and has extremely good range
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4 RepliesI understand Bungie's "philosophy" (honestly every time they say that, I want to pull my hair out), and I understand needing to pace out your shots and be patient, but all it's doing is forcing Hand Cannons into an under-performing, guess-that's-staying-in-the-vault corner where only niche weapons are [i]mostly[/i] consistent. Adding RNG to bullets when your life could very well depend on it is just bad design. Almost every gun, even Scout Rifles, can easily outperform Hand Cannons within their "appropriate" range because of phantom bullets. Pacing shots, while increasing accuracy, increases your time to kill with that weapon and lowers the amount of damage you dish out; other weapons can be fired as fast as you want, with max damage and max accuracy. It just isn't fair. I have a Rangefinder, Hammer-Forged Eyasluna that I use that is fairly consistent in the sense that the bullets hit most of the time. Nevertheless, I never feel like I can "trust" my weapon to perform the way I expect it to like I can with MIDA or Hawksaw. And I shouldn't have to use a specific weapon with these specific roles to even make it viable. I wish they'd just revert the accuracy changes altogether. I want to be able to trust my hand cannon to actually hit its targets. I miss Year 1 Hand Cannons.
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Bump They were pretty good before the update. Now all people have to do is quickly strafe side to side and spam a fast rate of fire to win against a hand cannon. It seems like every time I get good with something I think is fun, Bungie finds a way to poop on it. Judging from recent forum complaints, my Striker may very well be next.
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It's the accuracy nerf they implemented. Honestly I thought all the nerfs to hawkmoon were unwarranted. I can understand the range, it shouldn't be able to compete with scouts at distance, but deliberately making it inaccurate if fired in succession?? Meanwhile autos can now you down with perfect accuracy and stability at the further end of the distance spectrum.
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Edited by Goku: 5/2/2016 8:31:07 AMHow do I vote this up on my phone? Hand cannons aren't rewarding at any distance anymore after the blanket nerfs they did to address hawk moon and thorn. Scout rifles are better at close range and hit for almost the same on body shots. Literally most scout rifles have the same ttk more ammo and better accuracy than handcannons. They both fail in comparison to pulse rifles and auto rifles. They even fail against side arms and shotguns have better accuracy and range. Not only that, but they are awful pve too because of the nerfs... they were my favorite weapon. My vault had god rolls on every one year 1 and even into year two. After the nerfs, I disassembled all of them.
