Now, I'm more into destiny lore then the common person. Despite the terrible telling of story in the game, the actual grimoire cards tell fascinating stories. Since the drop of Taken King, we have gotten huge insights into the Hive, including the planet they originated from, past conquests, ect. My main interest however, was the Worms. Gods of the hive. As I read what little information I could find on them, I noticed something. "Despite calling themselves worms, the Worm Gods describe themselves as having jaws and wings, and that they are of massive size and strength." (Destinypedia.com). So they are not literally worms, but this term is used as a name. But notice "jaws and wings, and that they are massive of size of strength". Remind you of any mythological creature? A dragon maybe? And where else have dragon-like creatures appeared in Destiny? The Ahamkara. Ahamkara are said to be "wish fulfilling dragons" and were hunted to extinction by guardians due to the cost of these wishes being too much. So their wishes came at a price. Alright. Now back to the worms. The ancient proto-hive made a deal with the worms for power. It was through a pact with the worms that the proto-hive got powerful enough to launch their galactic conquest. See the similarity? Ahamkara required a payment or deal for their power, and so did the worms. Still think it is a coincidence? Look at their speech patterns. "Reality is a fine flesh, oh general ours. Let us feast of it."-A Worm God
"Reality is the finest flesh, oh bearer mine. And are you not… hungry?"- An Ahamkara.
"It’s dead, but it still speaks to me. It says: listen closely, oh vengeance mine…"- A Worm God
"Give me your arm, oh bearer mine. Let me help you fill the world with teeth." - An Ahamkara
They speak similarly, and even show the same views on things, such as what reality truly is. Is it possible that the Worms and the Ahamkara are the same, or at least closely related? Could it be that in times even before ancient, that they were on species, and when darkness and light came, they couldn't collectively decide on who to follow, and there was a split between two factions of the species. Those who sided with Darkness, the Worms, and those who sided with the light, the Ahamkara? They are similar in build, speech, power, and views. I don't believe this is a mere coincidence. But that begs the question, if the Ahamkara were as powerful as the godly worms, how did us guardians drive them to extinction? And here is yet another theory of mine, either the Ahamkara let us kill them, or they let us believe they are extinct. Look at the Bones of Eao. They posses gravity defying abilities, allowing for an extra jump, and clearly have Ahamkara bones on them. The description of them is "defy extinction" Not much more to go off on that part, but still, this is all a theory.
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Little reminder that the term "worm" was loosely translated, and can also be replaced my "Wyrm" which is a form of dragon. I've thought for a long time that the Worm/Wyrms and Ahamkara were the same, but both having different perspectives like you said
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1 Reply"I've got worms!" I mean, that's what we're going to call it. The title of the next game will be Destiny 2: I've Got Worms Sorry, it was the first thing that came to mind...
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I would say they're the same, probably, but I don't know. The description of the worms matches that of dragons, and I believe that Tolkien in [i]The Hobbit[/i] called Smaug "worm." I may misremember, though. The speech patterns sound the same too. One theory is that the Hive "Worm Gods" began as Akhmara larvae, because of their initial small size, as referenced in the grimore. However, after prolonged interaction with the Hive, both parties began to take on strange characteristics. Another is that the Akhmara also worshipped the so-called "Worm Gods," as it is mentioned in the grimore about the... feasting pole? plenty pole? It was a type of pole. I can't tell. Perhaps future expansions will explain it.
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they're the same
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4 RepliesNo. They're not. One is dragon's.
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They do the same "Oh bearer mine" thing so presumably
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2 Replies*collapses dead* [spoiler]ran into wall of text[/spoiler]
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5 RepliesThe term "worm' has been used here and there to describe many species in novel and other books, 'Dragons' been the most used reference in mythology.
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Now that we're talking about lore Can someone tell me the lore of the hive worms
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1 ReplyI wouldn't know as none of it is in the game...
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Now I'm not a big lore-lover, but I do some digging here and there. From what I can piece together (along with reading your post) the worms and Ahamkara are most likely related in some way, however they are not one and the same. The easiest way to show this is by saying the worms are inside of the hive, they are a parasite in a sense... the Ahamkara are not like that, they have a price, but it doesn't directly involve the Ahamkara, only the one who wishes.
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1 ReplyI don't think the worms or the ahamakara Or anything in the grimoire really Is ever mentioned in the game
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2 RepliesI absolutely believe the worms and ahamkara are one and the same. The worms are described very dragon like, as are ahamkara. The speech patterns are Identical. Worm, or wyrm, is an old European term for dragon. Further more, I think that since the worms are parasitic, they need a host, that the 5 worm gods use the darkness itself as a host. They didn't actually take oryx or anyone else as hosts, it was their Larvae. I dont think that ahamkara and worms are 2 parts of the same species as you've described, one for light and one for dark.
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...a game theory.
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2 RepliesMaybe yes.... Maybe yes² Maybe yes² x infinity
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I believe #voidwalkerforlife
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https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/194451441/0/0/1
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6 RepliesEdited by Glimmer: 3/24/2016 2:17:06 AMWhile they may be similar, Ahamkaras and Worms are definitely not part of the same species. The Ahamkaras were rumored to be the size of mountains. [b]The Worms, however, are [i][u]-BLAM!-ING MASSIVE!![/u][/i] The Dreadnought, for instance was constructed out of a segment of a worm. These things were larger than most planets. [][][][/b]
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3 RepliesEdited by hungryX4Xbacon: 3/23/2016 11:55:28 PMNo, but they also have worms. I'll find the grimoire card and edit. Edit: XLV: I'd shut them all in cells [quote] [b]The Dragons: [/b]Our gods should be ours alone. Their smug freedom is an insult to me. I'd shut them all in cells. Bring them to me![/quote]
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Nice digging! Pretty interesting post and a little food for thought!
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1 Reply
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3 RepliesThis is the best post I've seen here ever. I like yourself have also developed a deep interest in " Destiny Lore " and the Grimoire story telling. I really enjoyed reading this post and completely agree with your theory. Very well written and thank you for sharing.
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2 RepliesYes and no. Its implied they are the same species although likely different factions within the species.
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14 RepliesNo. Both are physically depicted in game. Worms. In the Touch of malice. the thing inside is oryx's worm. also. the black garden's heart. Ahamkara in body parts. Spread through various armors. Dead but still alive. the shoulder claws on claws of ahamkara for warlock open and close if you just view them long enough.
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Nah fam.