Since 2.0 dropped the bitching about sniper rifles has steadily increased to where we are now and every other post has turned into a nerf snipers thread. Even though there have been countless posts on those threads explaining how aim assist actually functions, the misconception that the bullets curve, magically track players heads, etc. refuses to go away. Planet Destiny did a video about this months ago that has been put on tons of these posts.
Here are the stats for all the popular sniper rifles from year one in the 31 impact class from planet destiny’s database:
[b]Dark Below: [/b]
My personal favorite sniper rifle in destiny the[b] LDR 5001[/b]
[b]Primary stats with min/max[/b]
RoF: 19 19/19
Impact: 31 31/32
Range: 68 60/93
Stability: 52 44/86
Reload: 60 60/73
[b]Secondary Stats with min/max[/b]
Aim assistance: 49 39/79
Equip speed: 43 28/63
Recoil direction: 79 79/79
Zoom: 40 40/95
[b]Longbow Synthesis[/b]
[b]Primary stats with min/max[/b] (RoF and impact will be ignored for the rest):
Range: 68 58/91
Stability: 56 47/90
Reload: 65 65/78
[b]Secondary Stats with min/max:[/b]
Aim assistance: 53 43/83
Equip speed: 50 35/70
Recoil direction: 59 59/59
Zoom: 40/95
[b]House of Wolves:[/b]
[b]Her Benevolence[/b]
[b]Primary stats with min/max:[/b]
Range: 66 50/96
Stability: 46 21/97
Reload: 54 40/81
[b]Secondary stats with min/max:[/b]
Aim assistance: 40 30/70
Equid speed: 35 30/85
Recoil direction: 72 72/72
Zoom: 40 40/95
[b]Shadow of Veils[/b]
[b]Primary stats with min/max:[/b]
Range: 74 74/82
Stability: 41 37/65
Reload: 59 59/69
[b]Secondary stats with min/max:[/b]
Aim assistance: 69 69/84
Equip speed: 51 51/56
Recoil direction: 70
Zoom: 40
[b]The Taken King:[/b]
[b]Thousand Yard Stare
[/b]
[b]Primary Stats with min/max:[/b]
Range: 66 50/96
Stability: 57 31/100
Reload: 62 43/97
[b]Secondary stats with min/max:[/b]
Aim assistance: 56 31/71
Equip speed: 54 39/104(wat)
[b]Eirene RR4[/b] (not technically in the 31 impact class as it has 34)
[b]Primary Stats with min/max:[/b]
Range: 76 66/100
Stability: 44 27/78
Reload: 57 43/85
[b]Secondary stats with min/max:[/b]
Aim assistance: 21 21/21
Equip speed: 51 46/101
[b]Stillpiercer [/b]
[b]Primary stats: [/b]
Range: 66 56/70
Stability: 57 46/57
Reload: 65 65/93
[b]Secondary stats:[/b]
Aim assistance: 51 41/56
Equip speed: 59/59
Zoom: 40 40/45
Now after being presented with the numerical values for all the popular legendary sniper rifles in that RoF impact class over year one and year two, you can see that thousand yard stare is right around where all the other popular sniper rifles in terms of Aim assistance and stats.
Players are looking for a scapegoat for to blame for the sudden increase in snipers and they are blaming the wrong thing. While the thousand yard stare is popular since everyone got a well rolled one from a quest line, of course players are going to be using it. If re rolling was still a thing we would see everyone running one with shortgaze, performance bonus or unflinching, and hidden hand like they were with Her Benevolence during HoW.
The increase in snipers is because the primary weapon type has shifted from hand cannons to pulse and scout rifles, favoring longer engagement distances. Shotguns, while some would argue they have been nerfed into the ground, are still very very good, especially the high impact class shotguns, which everyone also got a perfectly rolled shotgun from a quest line, at a higher light level in fact.
Players getting sniped need to take into account that the meta and weapons usage has changed in the past few months. You can no longer basically go on auto pilot and get a ton of kills with blink shot gun and actually need to use some form of intelligence and map awareness in order to be effective with shotguns, as it should have always been. Use flanking routes, blink, shadestep, titan skating, sliding, etc. to get around or past sight lines.
A lot of players still scarred from the Thorn and Last Word days are equating over use with overpowered. 1000 yard stare has a flat 1.0 k/d among equipped players. In other words Bungie’s data shows it is very balanced. MIDA too has fallen victim to the cries for nerf simply because a lot of players are using it when it isn’t overpowered at all.
Now if you are going to complain about sniper rifles, there are two things that could be argued are actually worthy of your tears.
1. Special ammo is too frequent still and allows players to get most of their kills using special ammo. I’m personally convinced that a good amount of players in the crucible have no idea what a primary weapon is
2. Players are using sniper rifles to go for body shots. As the TTK has risen with the hand cannon nerfs to closer to 1 second it allows time for players to get the two body shots off with high impact snipers, something that was harder to do in year one. Decrease the body shot damage in the CRUCIBLE only to compensate for the increase in TTK.
a. For some context 1kys was 22.5% of ToO kills this weekend and only 41.72% of those were head shot kills.
b. Decreasing the body damage in the CRUCIBLE would promote and reward those of us that have high precision kill percentages and would increase the skill gap on sniper rifles a bit more.
[b]TL:DR Complaining about 1KYS and aim assist is the wrong thing to complain about, if there is anything to complain about at all.[/b]
English
#Destiny
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Can I complain about running out of primary as it is D:>
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Thanks for taking the time to post all the numbers but who's to say they are true values ? I think the fact is that all the weapon tuning they been doing is they dont even know seeing this last update where they got them wrong shows this. Everyone wants a high impact sniper to rez snipe so this limits what snipers everyone is using is a issue on top of how there is little to no flinch to then when they get shot. They can get shot with no penalty and just stand there till they get over your head then kill you is the issue with them. Halo has is right in that if you are scoped in and get shot it show unscope you would fix this issue oh and make a hold breath to stop the hard scoping shit going on now. Thanks again for your post.
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2 RepliesThe issue isn't aim assist (no idea why kids are crying about that now, because it's been like this since launch) The issue with snipers has been a combination of factors. There's no 1 cause or solution right now, because all the tweaks Bungie made over a year, have made sniper rifles a dominant weapon even in the hands of an average player. Right now sniper rifles are beating guns in their sweet spot range. It's beating ARs & hand cannons up close, it beats pulse rifles in medium range and scout rifles at their best range (although Scout rifles are more acceptable because they're the distant primary weapon). How come? A number of things. 1) short range scopes have pretty much identical zoom/magnification as long range primary scopes. Yet, a primary weapon will not kill as quickly as a sniper. Shortgaze scope alone feels like most Scout rifles long range scope. 2) No flinching. Shoot a sniper in the face, but they remain scoped the entire time. They can withstand a few shots before finally getting off a shot to kill someone. 3) No gun sway, with multiple bullets to fire. You don't need to be accurate with your first shot (like No Land Beyond). You have other shots to do the job. This is how average players are getting kills, compared to those who are deadly accurate with sniper shots. Combine all of this with Shotgun ABILITIES were nerfed. Not only the damage, but speed, ADS etc. Fusion & sidearms having no defined roll, and snipers have become a dominant weapon. Easiest solutions aren't just removing special ammo... it's cutting down on some of their abilities. Add a heavy flinch or de-scope if they get shot in the head. And change the zoom magnification on all sights to all be much longer than primary weapons. Most crucible maps are relatively small (Skyshock, First Light and Bastion are large maps), so Bungie accommodated smaller maps with better zoomed scopes for snipers. That was a mistake, and changing the zoom levels would correct part of that. The other option (which I would be against), is turning them all into bolt action sniper rifles like NLB or only giving them 1 bullet in the chamber. That would require accuracy and cut down on the sniper spam like the old Praedyth's Revenge type shit.
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Every special is OP compared to primaries in year 2. In Year 1 this wasn't true because of Thorn and TLW. The problem is that people are running exclusively special guns in crucible. I think you made a good point here about the special ammo availability. We should spawn with 0 special ammo and it should be less available to make "special" truly special.
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This, also increase fire rate, in order to avoid 2 body shot kills.
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1 ReplyRead my post. Much better AND evidence. TLW and Thorn dominated year 1 so if course people complained about the problem at hand.
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I like your suggestion about body shot damage. Please Do something because it's annoying that so many use snipers like scout rifles.
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2 RepliesSnipers are frustrating because they're everywhere. They can kill you up close and kill you while they are taking fire. Really all that needs to be done is maybe put more flinch on snipers and limit special ammo. If special ammo is limited to where you can't use a special as a primary then snipers won't feel like an epidemic. Special should spawn along with heavy and lose it on death. And no perks or gear that grant you more special ammo. Specials are supposed to be OP but the fact that players can spam kills with them the whole match is the major problem.
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Too long didn't read snipers are op
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5 RepliesYes, I tried playing skirmish earlier. No one use a primary weapon and always spammed sniper shots. Its so much more effective than using a primary right now. Special needs to be severely limited as fast as possible.
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1 ReplyEdited by king_jon_1980: 1/5/2016 5:34:12 PMReducing special ammo won't help cos everyone will go to the invective for the ammo regen and once the ice breaker becomes a y2 gun then that's what everyone will use......only way to change things would be if you can only use your special weapons once every other life or something along those lines. Or change the points system. 300 points for primary kill, 200 for special and 100 for heavy
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Edited by Star Gazer2: 1/5/2016 5:53:40 PMSnipers and all special weapons are not overpowered, they are overused. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/182264454/0/0/1 Bungie even said themselves: [quote][b]Further improve the balance of encounters by limiting high-damage weapons[/b][/quote] Limiting special weapon will really start balancing this game. Nerfing them will not.
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2 RepliesPlanet Destiny has max aim assist on 1k stare set at 71. However, since they don't have an actual value of hidden hand yet. Later we believed it adds 15 aim assist. But since they can't confirm that they leave it at 71. And you can get 71 just by adding shortgaze. Shortgaze adds 15 to any gun. So with shortgaze and hidden hand it's 86. 86 aim assist.
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Great work! Thanks, OP.
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4 RepliesEdited by cuzzybubba1: 1/5/2016 4:50:18 PMTLDR... Snipers aren't the problem, special ammo is across the board... Primary people, Primary.. Now that shotguns have been nerf'd numerous times along with Fusion Rifles it leaves Snipers and Side Arms (good but not great). A lot of people transitioned to Snipers hence more deaths to them. I'll be the first to say they are fine, special ammo is NOT and needs another reduction. Crucible desperately needs an influx of primary kills/battles.Even if you want to use your primary at this point you are almost funneled into special use due to shotgun rushers and hard scopers..
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Aim assist should be a base stat across weapons. Snipers should have a lower ROF and more recoil and you should be punished for missing precision shots. Rather than just following up with a second one for the double body.
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7 RepliesSpecials are meant to be situational. Like oh crap someone is close by *bang*-shotgun kill. Or I think I saw movement way over there *bang* - sniper kill. Everywhere else it should be primary weapon combat. If everyone was given maybe 2 or 3 kills worth of special, you'd hold onto it until you needed it to stay alive. And no pickups. Maybe earn a kills worth of special for playing the objective (eg capturing control points). The real question is: where do fusion rifles fit? In PvE they are used exclusively for tough shielded enemies where they can hit like a truck. But PvP? Elemental damage is useless. I think nerfing the accuracy was a mistake. If you're risking the charge time, you need accurate results. I think if fusion rifles were accurate to mid-range, but with longer charge time across the board, then in the hands of players who can anticipate gameplay, they'd make a return.
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7 RepliesGood post. I especially like your point about people equating over use to overpowered. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's OP. I personally don't believe any gun or weapon type in the game right now is OP. The only thing in the game right now that I find a tad OP is the max duration on Stormtrance (nothing like getting killed twice by the same super, lol).
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Really well said, I agree with all of it. The destiny playerbase is largely just fuking clueless about most things in pvp.
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1 ReplyI've been saying this for a wile now, there is no issue with 1 shot head shot kills, body shots should never be a 1 shot kill with full health. There are multiple issues with snipers. First off in year one there was little complaints, this was due to the weapon balance. In year two there are a lot less close counter combat due to Hand cannon and shotgun nerf so most fights are ranged encouraging sniper use. In year two the sniper is now the weapon of choice for all end bosses ( ok, most not all ) and a must for the raid, everyone was given a 1000YS and we use it a lot. Ammo in PVP is plentiful and the guns themselves are easy to use, admit it, relative fast fire rate, quick aim, good size clip and total ammo capacity, snipers for the damage they do are a very easy gun to get kills with, unfortunately unless Bungie makes PVP only changes any changes made would make the Raid near impossible for anyone with low light or new players unless they were carried by higher light players. The best course in my opinion would be to limit special ammo like heavy, ammo regen guns and NLB would need a pvp patch to bring them inline, this would make people use the gun for what its intended and not just throw shots.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/3w7o1g/on_snipers_being_overpowered_perception/
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Edited by RGcubed11: 1/5/2016 3:12:21 PMThe only reasons why snipes are being brought up is because fusion rifles and shotguns took huge hits. If that didn't happen no one would say anything about sniping. I hate sniping and would love a nerf but would rather have at least fusion rifles buffed cause I know the shotties won't be
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Don't forget, the raid sniper and Hereafter also have higher aim assistance than 1k stare as well.
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I feel like alot of these "problem" specials have been literally just given to us. If anyone is to blame its Bungie xD