Everyone compares Sunbreaker with bladedancers and gunslingers etc. and says that Sunbreaker is OP. What alot of people dont seem to understand tough is that Sunbreaker is the only class with a skilltree completely focused around the super. It's a really good class when your super is activated but outside of the super it is really not that great. Sunsingers get double nades and over shields on melee HIT. Bladedancers have invisibilty, backstab, blink and faster weapon switches. Nightstalkers are able to track enemies, throw smoke grenades with there melee charge and have shadestep. The list goes on and on.. I think you got my point there. What does a sunbreaker have outside of his SUPER? Of course Sunbreaker should have the strongest super if the whole skilltree is focused on it, they have nothing else going for them.

Main Hunter for PVP and Titan for PvE. I see nothing wrong with Sunbreaker. Give me a valid reason to nerf and along with a solution that'll balance it for PVP and not break it for PvE.

I main a hunter since forever and I, only looking and understanding what this post mentions, agree completely. Hunters have been deadly for pvp with supers but everything changed in this dlc when Titans gained sun breaker. It needs to be balanced. Lemme get ready for the dickrider, butthurt comments.

Ya it's the basic I no longer have a logical argument so I'll just spout nonsense move, usually happens when you challenge some ones opinion on the forums here.

Originally posted by mongrelshadow14: [quote]Honestly got tired of the complaint threads so I decided to take 2 friends into rumble to test. I first tested the defense both with max armor and with the extra armor you can get with a certain chest piece when using a solar based subclass. results: I had 2 snipers used. stillpeircer and black spindle. still has impact of 31 which covers 1000 yard stare and LDR. black spindle has 37 which covers black hammer and eferdeets spear. the 004 sniper was not used but has an impact of 34. snipers were used at point blank so no damage drop off was present. With max armor the 31 impact snipers leave me with a tiny sliver of health. which means the 34 impact sniper and 37 impact snipers will one shot me. With additional armor the 37 sniper one shot me. which means 3 snipers can currently one shot headshot the sunbreaker when they have the most armor possible. the 34 might be able to do it. and any sniper with a damage proc including the 31 snipers will be able to one shot. Next I tested golden gun. The result was the same both times. Point blank a golden gun will not one shot the sunbreaker. but they both leave you with a sliver of health. so if the sunbreaker has literally taken any damage at all and gets hit by golden gun they will die. It's important to note that you have to fully spec into armor in order to live from golden gun. If you don't take max armor golden gun will one shot you. Lastly I tested the damage of the hammer on direct impacts. To confirm my idea that it has the same damage model of arc blade swipes. When running max armor on blade dancer with the extra armor you take 2 hammers to kill. you're left with half of your red health bar. then I tested it against a person with max armor on storm trance but no extra armor and got the same result. to me this means it's got the same damage of the arc blade melee. If hammer of sol does any extra damage at all its so small that it's not going to matter in 90% of situations. Conclusion: the sunbreaker mid super naturally has a slight armor advantage. and it's honestly so slight it doesn't matter in my opinion. you have potentially 4 snipers with out any special perk roll that can one shot head shot. and if you are using golden gun all you have to do is hit them with anything like a nade or knife and then golden gun and they are dead. I understand people don't like that the sunbreaker can even survive it at all. However they are the tank class and all titan sub classes can tank a golden gun. so it's consistent. and hammer of sol has average damage. needing 2 hammers to kill a majority of people mid super. of course if the target has low armor it's a one hit. But everyone is always telling me max armor is the way to go in crucible. so if you aren't running it you willingly accept the concequences. end of story. I didn't test all sub classes on damage with the hammer because the 2 I did test with different situations yielded the same results. Though if someone proves me wrong with footage and explains the situation i'll retract my statement. I also didn't test sword swings or rockets. Simply because anyone mid super (bar golden gun and radiance with no radiant skin) can tank 2 sword swings and if any of the subclasses (bar the same 2) spec for max armor can survive a rocket. simply put it's not a new thing. armor always protected you from rockets and now from 2 burst deaths. and the swords follow the same damage model as arc blade does. Hopefully this thread gets around and people stop complaining about how tanky they are or how stupid strong hammer damage is. EDIT: I completely forgot to mention the shotgun testing done. I managed to survive a conspiracy D headshot at point blank when I had the max armor+ the additional armor from the chest piece. with out the additional armor from the chest piece I die. So High impact shotguns will one shot sunbreakers if they are headshots 90% of the time.[/quote]

I find that anyone who doesn't play all three classes doesn't have a full grasp on the game.

[quote] 2) Especially hunters having had the strongest PvP classes overall, should know when something is over tuned. When the Hunter mains start to complain that something is too strong, you know that we have a balancing problem.[/quote] So, if something is stronger/better then the Hunter and they complain, the game is unbalanced... I am starting to see a pattern.

I understand you. Hunters, Warlocks and titans all have a good grasp of what is op. I am a Sunbreaker. Bring the armour bonus given on activation to put in line with the blade dancer. That is all thay is required now that we can no longer create flaming rainbows.... Bring the armour bonus to BD standards and then everyone is happy

1) Hunters were the most OP PvP class 2) Sees Sunbreaker 3) "Nothing's better than hunters" 4) Dies. Is salty because they aren't the best anymore. 5) Complains

I think that hammer of Sol is balanced because I can hear from kilometers that *stlang* when it activates so I can start running away very fast! Hunters know when it's time for a tactical reatreat Now, seriously, for me it's fine. Enjoy it mister titan

I'm glad someone was able to put up a post about this that was quite well formulated. Personally, with my analysis of sub-class supers and the ways to stop/counter them, I'd say 2/3 Titan sub-classes are slightly out of game balance. The striker super needs to be killable, or have less extreme AOE (considering it outranges Nova Bomb's AOE and gives more defense during execution, it's just better unless the Voidwalker is running lance which comes with a bunch of disadvantages) but, on the other hand, a voidwalker has its perks in other areas (super range melee anyone?). There could be an argument made that needing to dive-bomb the enemy has it's disadvantages, so we can let that one slide for now. A Sunbreaker on the other hand is just OP in most dimensions except for basic combat perks. Anyone who says otherwise is being a little too biased/emotional on the topic. Take, for example, a SB with an over-shield that takes (4 with my sniper, as low as 2 with something like Efrideet's Spear) too many headshots to kill, even if they're playing like a complete dunce. They have plenty of time to turn around after shot 2, and peg you by shot 3. And really, who are we kidding, they don't have to "peg" anything. Tracking AND AOE anyone? Not to mention that it's generally a one-shot anywhere in that AOE unless you're at the very edge and are running max armour. That's just nuts - to have a super that's given the advantage of range, the advantage of AOE, the advantage of durability, the advantage of multiple shots, and the advantage of mobility. They get to be a radiancing sunsinger (a good version, not the self res kind lol) who gets to throw mini novabombs almost as fast as a gunslinger can shoot their golden gun. It truly is the best sub-class as far as super goes. As for anyone talking about the myriad ways in which the SB can be shut down while supering, they're not wrong. The problem is that all of the ways they mention involve very well coordinated teams or other conditions that are well and beyond anything you'd need to end another sub-class's super reign of terror seeing as most of the ones that powerful are a one and done kinda thing like a nova bomb or a fist of havoc or don't have that much damage potential like radiance. It is sad that the hunter collective is so mind-blowingly angry right now though. I mean, if you're a good player who doesn't need your super to get kill streaks, hunters have arguably the two best sub-classes for their out-of-super perks. Yes, Bungie needs to, and will, address the issue of SB having the best super, maybe they'll nerf the super and give them something else to compensate in the perk tree, but there's no need to be so damn outraged about it, on average, you're still going to do better in crucible since supers are only a minority of your kills if you're reasonably good. P.S. Whoever said a SB could be one-shot by Efrideet's Spear was fighting someone who wasn't running max armour and who DEFINITELY didn't have an overshield. Or you've got a cool perk that bumps up damage by a teeny bit.

What if I play nightstalker and use monte carlo with a low impact sniper and still go 2.0 or higher every game. Where's my opinion stand in that case? I'm pretty sure the community has unanimously voted nightstalker the "weakest" of the new subclasses. [spoiler]because they don't know how to use it ;)[/spoiler]

Totally great post. One idea on this as a way to balance this out. There ought to be a perk for NightStalker (the weakest of the three new subclasses in terms of Super) to give us half a super charge any time someone activates Sunbreaker on the opposing team. This doesn't nerf the Sunbreaker at all, but makes it so we can counter if nearly immediately. This could be an added perk to Blood Bound. This way I have to choose between it and Quiver. And I've only got one shot assuming I get my super fully charged by the 50% to take down the Sunbreaker before he kills me.

As a Titan main I definitely think Hammer of Sol needs a bit of a nerf, like make them slower and decrease armour during super use or even add a backlash to the hammers if you stand too close to your target because in all honesty having a tank that's able to catch up to you, throwing hammers either regenerating health or having an overshield on is too op. I mean seriously I'm not very good at crucible but I'm guaranteed at least 3 kills with that ult whenever I pop it