I’d say the new raid lorebook settles this. Has anyone read all the pages yet? https://www.destinypedia.com/Lore:Inspiral I see an emphasis on showing The Deep was accessible to many others who go against the grain of the Witness and don’t serve it. They were actually the Hives first victims. Questions about more than one voice in the darkness. The likely motivation of the Witness. And the final page…. Chefs kiss. The Winnower was also speaking to people using the Darkness. Just like we know the Gardner did. Subtle influence. As stated in Unveiling. I’m going to go on a limb and make a prediction now, we’ll encounter the Winnower (either directly or conversationally) before we meet the Gardner and it may be the key to getting through the portal. Don’t see who else could know enough about it.

The Deep was a catch all term, as it was used to describe a place, entity, philosophy and power. This was done because at the time, the Darkness was unknown but they needed something as TTK was coming, The Deep was basically used as a lore based “insert here” moniker. The easy answer is that both the Witness and Winnower use the power to communicate. The only question is who is talking to who. I mean, the conversational style by The Deep in conversation Oryx matches the style spoken in Unveiling to us. Whereas all mention of the Witness talking and gameplay show someone who is different from those two examples. In terms of creation. The Witness, in a generic sense, always existed. The Winnower was added later as a counterpart to the Gardner.

I personally don’t actually think that the Worm Gods knew of the Witness, just that some powerful force (Rhulk) took their mother, and later larvae began to appear in the Fundament, coming to them. The Witness manipulated the manipulators(Worm Gods) to make the Hive. Also the Sword Logic is anti-what the Witness wants, it wants a world of nothing. The Sword Logic wants a world of the worthy. Edit: also the Witness didn’t come I to existence until WQ, after the introduction of the Winnower.

[quote]Okay, lore people, time to theorize once again. I’ve seen some back-and-forth discussions about the Deep, so let’s talk. We have, I would say, two instances where the Deep was really mentioned in the lore (personified). One was Rhulk, who fell into the chasm and encountered the Deep. The other was the Ogre that Oryx made so the Deep could communicate with him. As to what the Deep is, we know the sky is the traveler. The deep is mentioned by the worm gods all the time. So, if the worm gods believe in the Witness, who made the sword logic, doesn’t that mean that the Deep is the Witness? We know of the existence of the Winnower, but I believe that is a different story, existing later down the line of Destiny 2. What do you think?[/quote] In the same lore book you mentioned Rhulk he does speak with the witness and it uses a syntax of I believe -text- and when he speaks to the deep in the abyss the deep uses the witness syntax. We also need to remember the Witness is a being with a thousand names. As Savathun said, and someone on the forums reminded me