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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by Gawain: 1/9/2019 9:39:25 AM
25

PVP Emoji = Protest [Pay 2 Win]

So I was in the Crucible and [u]found a guy petting a chicken[/u] in front of the enemies. Repetivly he ran up to the battle lines and started petting that chicken creating a losing streak. More and more I find players not playing in pvp. Instead they are intentionally running into death or [u]using emojis[/u]. I have even watched Titans taking a knee like athletes during the national anthem. I finally talked to one of them after they caused our team to lose the match and I was surprised at what he had to say. I never looked at it much but Destiny PVP unquestionably unbalanced and it has a [b]Pay to Win[/b] element. You either pay for the ability to acquire elite gear & supers or you don't get them. Base players can grind indefinitely and not get the perks or power gear available to pay players. Keep in mind that base D2 players do not have access to Spider or his fount of enhancement cores. The competitive gear they do get, often relies on tilted RNG and it can take exceedingly more grinding than most players are willing to dedicate. The level capped players are severely handicapped, and it can even be argued that the seasonal pass players have a significant advantage over Forsaken players. Advantages and handicaps based on wallet size oppose the basic concept of the word "Competitive." Also the system does not encourage PvP when you have to grind just to be effective. Instead it encourages PvProtest, which we have been seeing more of. [u]Especially when matchmaking is so unbalanced![/u] Base Concept of Competitive gameplay. [spoiler]In Halo a player could skip all of the campaige and start PvPing as soon as the game loaded. All players had access to the same basic guns so no player was restricted by campaign participation. Players start out with a low PvP rank that raised quickly to match each player's skill. That way players could be matched by rank making the game play both balanced and actually "competitive." Starting Destiny players are restricted to crap weapons and are matchmade with players who carry the highest PvP scores and meta level weapons. It is so unbalanced that PvP is literally the Boy Scouts vs the Army. We are not talking about a fresh skilled player being tossed in the kiddy pool because they just got the game and have yet to earn their rank, no the most seasoned PvPers are commonly teamed up with players that only ever won a match because their teammates carried them. Long story short fresh PvPers find that they have no choice but the grind the campaign in order to obtain gear just to be effective in Destiny PvP. Not competitive, just effective. Competitive means participating in a balanced field where everyone is equal in both gear and skill. Without matching gear and perks you can never know if you won or lose due to your skill or piece of payed for gear. Without skill based matchmaking there is no competitive test or testament at all. You might as well boast about winning the special olympics when you do not suffer from a handicap. So Destiny currently lacks any "Competitive gameplay" at all.[/spoiler] So I asked the "Kneeling Titan" many of the things you would probably ask. Please keep in mind that these are his words not my own, however I cannot find fault in what he said. [b][u]Q, So why play Crucible at all?[/u][/b] [i]Answer, [spoiler]Because you are rewarded for it. As an unbalanced system failing to participate only compounds the Pay to Win mentality. [/i] [/spoiler] [b][u]Q, Why intentionally lose?[/u] [/b] [i]Answer, [spoiler]Unbalanced under geared players are merely entertain for the Pay to Win players. From either perspective it is unfair and lacking in sportsmanship. Standing around intentionally dying discourages Pay to Win teammates from playing crucibles, and the opposing team receive only hollow victories. You don't really win if the other team throws the game. So would you continue to play broken PvP beyond completing quests when there is a good chance of running into players intentionally throwing the match or would you be more likely play a game with balanced PvP? Also failure is faster. Intentionally failing results in less matches, or the match being called early which saves us all time. Time is by far the most valuable resource in any game. However most of us just want a fair PVP option.[/i] [/spoiler] [b][u]Q, Why Gambit?[/u][/b] [i]Answer,[spoiler] Even though Gambit is mostly PvE there is also PvP and the competition is based on the gear and perks or lack thereof, of each player. A lack of balance is still a "lack of balance" in any competition. So we collect Mots and don't bank, or PvP and dance rather than shoot the enemy. Often one protester will have huge control over a gambit match. [/i] [/spoiler] [b][u]Q, Why Emojis?[/u][/b] [i]Answer,[spoiler] They are an efficient way to communicate to the other team that you are protesting Pay to Win. On occasion a few will not take the kill, but most readily accept it and move on. They complain when they get a player on their team, but Pay to Win players rarely turn down a free meal. Thus far only once have all players from both sides started a dance party. We had more fun dancing than shooting because all participants understood that it was not balanced. [/i][/spoiler] I did not agree at first but then I started looking into it and found there were facts to support what he was saying. I have run into several Emoji players thus far and everyday it seems to be more common. On a few occasions I fought players with the same weapon only to find they had to hit me several times while I only needed to shot them once. This is not fair and it should not be considered PVP. [u]It has taken all the fun out of PVP for me and many of my friends.[/u] [b]The solution seems obvious.[/b] Players need a permanent (balanced) option for PvP. Not an option that is only available on the second weekend after the third friday of the month. An [u]additional[/u] option that is available all the time, with the same reward packages for all PvP which includes Gambit. [spoiler]Creating a new balanced mode is nothing more than a setting adjustment to the existing PvP modes. All of the work is already done and having two ways to play all PvP will not hurt D2 Gameplay. The balance mode would simple reset the stats of all gear to a default per type. All hand cannons would perform to the default of hand cannon, All shotguns to the default for shotguns, all armor would provide the same defence, and so on. This way everyone has the same perks and gear performance which is the definition of balanced. This way, just like in Halo, a level 1 player could start PvP and be on equal ground with meta players, as the balanced mode convers their gear into cosmetics. They could call the options "Gear Unlimited" & "Gear Balanced". [/spoiler] Without a balanced option, my friends and I have started to Emoji instead of participating in PvP. We are doing our minimum time to get the reward and then not playing because it really does not mean anything to win. It is hard to fathom how Bungie got PvP so incredibly right in Halo and failed so miserably in Destiny. I truly hope they remedy this with a simple addition option as I want to enjoy Destiny PvP, in the same way I enjoyed Halo PvP. There is no fun or victory in shooting players who cannot compete do to their gear. If Bungie cannot then it only proves that they care more about your wallet than the quality of their product. I would appreciate your opinions.

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  • Bounce

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  • Your satire is god tier.

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  • What? Pay to Win? Are you a moron? People AFK/Emote ("Emoji" lul) because the game hands out Participation Trophies, win or lose. They aren't protesting. They are Losers with a Defeatist Attitude that know that they only need to merely exist in a Match to get rewarded at the end for Milestone completions and Rank Packages. And in doing so, ruin the experience for Teammates that want to win. They are dead weight and they know it.

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    • This is a troll post right? Please tell me this is a troll post...

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      • My final point, so I won’t be responding after this. As I have said before, Destiny is a looter shooter and it takes that into PvP and PvE. I have some of your replies. In one you mentioned that having different archetypes is ok, but the perks is what makes it unfair. If all guns where just purely cosmetic, and there was no grind for that sweet god roll, then why play at all? By removing perks you take away the grind. Grinding and uniqueness of a weapon is why many people hold destiny dear to there hearts. If it was the way you want it to be, where every gun is purely cosmetic, I wouldn’t have a favourite gun. My Necrochasm is the same as your doctrine of passing, but boy it looks cool. That’s not fun, it’s boring and bland. Halo was fun but there was no diversity. It got boring. I don’t want destiny to become boring.

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        • That was a very well categorized post with lots of paragraphs bullet points Q'S and A's... It also said a whole lot of nonsense; to say that Destiny, which charges money for DLC, essentially like a semi-annual subscription is pay to win is both an erroneous and misleading statement. I will admit my bias as a fan of the game and owner of the DLC colors my judgement, but I categorically reject the insinuation that a game like Destiny is held to the same term as candy crush and world of tanks as ridiculous. Destiny is Pay-to-Play and this interaction either did not happen or is being done by a small group of people who would rather stroke a chicken then actually play the game . Year 1 weapons are still usable and the game is far from dead, if you stop paying the "subscription" the service ends. Just like not paying the electric bill will get your power turned off. Destiny does not charge a traditional monthly subscription but their prices are infrequent and reasonable. Ingame mtx's are for purely cosmetic items. It is a nickle and dime warehouse, but it is far from pay to win. This post is a well thought out Joke.

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        • Either pay for the dlc or dont and come to terms that you wont have the most up to date stuff. Why play base game anyway?

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          • If someone is playing outdated content, then that’s their own fault. Purchasing a DLC and being up to date is not “Pay 2 Win”. If you want to see real “Pay 2 Win”, go look at Battlefront 2 before EA fixed it their micro-transaction system.

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            • Lol what a post

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            • https://m.imgur.com/gallery/MrlYi

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            • When you talk to yourself and make an essay about it. [b][i]music starts[/i][/b]

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              • So, what’s a fix for this so called “pay to win”

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                • Please just stop. I got all of my gearbi have now by grinding. You're just salty that you are bad

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                  • Who cares? Tell those people to stop acting entitled and to play a different game. They could've bought the dlc but they chose not to.

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                    • Your entire post could’ve been simplified into a single phrase: [spoiler]Eeeeeee![/spoiler] [spoiler]Seriously, what are you smoking?[/spoiler]

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                    • Edited by Hellspawn: 12/16/2018 4:48:03 AM
                      Having read your post, I have a serious question of my own. Was your crib as a baby covered in lead paint? Also, if this guy explained all this, and you BELIEVED all of that, might want to stay away from any cult leaders. Just saying.

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                    • I am literally laughing out loud right now

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                    • Weapons damage in Crucible is decided by the archetype, distance from the target, and precision damage if applicable. Weapon perks and subclass perks can potentially change this as well. Power level does not affect damage in Crucible outside of Iron Banner(and Trials, whenever that comes back) which is why it says power level advantages disabled in the playlists. I’ve played Crucible with severely under leveled characters before and it in no way affected my damage against higher power players. My hand cannons killed in the same amount of shots as they normally do. All weapons do the same amount of damage as any other in the same archetype. Give some video evidence to support otherwise, otherwise I call bs.

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                      • Honestly I hope you all eat lead and no one has mercy. Us pay to win players didn't pay to win. We payed because we love the game and have been here since d1 and want to experience all the game has to offer. The amount of entertainment time you can get from this title is far greater than the miniscule amount of money it cost for all of the game has to offer. I MEAN FOR FOCKS SAKE MAN IT COST OVER 50$ TO TAKE 2 OUT TO A MOVIE THESE DAYS AND GET POPCORN AND A DRINK and that last what?.. Maybe 2-3hrs tops! It takes employees to develop content and market. That means there's salaries to pay and of course the fat man on top wants to get paid, wouldn't you. Sorry these people that probably got this game for free when it was given away just don't understand how life works. Maybe some day they'll grow up. In the meant time I will continue to enjoy the literal thousands of hours of entertainment I get from the game while you guys just sit there and get shot in the face.

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                        • Also you can have the same weapon with a trash barrel or masterwork stat or other perks then your opponent with the same gun. It's called random roles and what most of us who have played from the start wanted back and never wanted taken away in d2 vanilla. Don't side with those who feel entitled because the game was given away or just didn't know what the game is all about. If you payed for more to play you probably already new what destiny is about. Your better than that. Again its about the game..

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                        • Here is the deal with that. A GOOD player can take any of the year one weapons and STOMP some ARSE of most players period. I often use year one weapons with their year one setup. For instance there are two very good 180 handcannons to use if that is the weapon you want to pick on in place of Trust. There are tons of top end pulse rifles etc. Of course Bungie uses new seasons and the rewards in them to make people get the wants and buy in. No doubt but I assure you there is nothing they are locked out of that keeps them from having a good experience in the crucible......That is something else entirely. You know things like no matchmaking system, those sorts of things. Oh and I am not saying I am one of those players. Hell I am that player that quit the chase for the Luna because he figured it wouldn't make enough of a difference in his outcomes to be worth the pain of obtaining it.

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                          • Edited by Gawain: 12/14/2018 10:57:29 AM
                            @Melevalance I agree that options for customizable PVP may add flair and interesting alternative, because it is an option. The point is that one of the most basic options in D2 PVP is missing and that is Skill only balanced PVP. The addition of another mode of PVP cannot harm game play as more options are always appealing. And I agree matchmaking is utterly broken. I do not believe that the emojiers are being unreasonable to ask for a fair PVP mode, even a Gambit mode that is balanced for all players. As a pay player I would at least know that my skill defeated my enemies and not my wallet. And using substandard weapons is not an option. While I willing to take a handicap for fairness, there are countless other players that will not. Here is the real catch. Bungie has already done all of the work. A fair and balanced Cruiciple and Gambit mode is merely a setting change to the existing system. They could easily add a new mode with the next update. However it kind of proves that D2 is Pay to Win if they refuse to offer it. With so many Emoji PVPers it seems to be highly desirable. I ran into three more today during a single gambit match. I did not notice them at first as I was focused on killing but when our motes never got banked I slowed down and start paying attention. There were two on my side and one of their, all from different clans. Our invader spent the whole time dancing next to our Primeval. I switch to a Hand cannon and started working on Cayde 6 gun quest. I have talked to many players and even Payed Players want a "[u]Skill Only - PVP & Gambit[/u]" No Weapon or Armor Perks whatsoever. All Weapons of each type perform exactly the same for their type. Honestly for Gambit I would rather have starting heavy ammo and restrict Supers. Grenades, Melees, and Dodges are fine, however from what I have seen the Devs will never successfully balance the power, so they should not even attempt it. A few warlocks can effectively melt a Primeval without effort while nearly every other build has to work at it. It is just another form of min/maxing except it is class based. It would be far simple to exclude supers than to piss every player off as you nerf these powers attempting to find balance. A novice dev could write the code for this alternative PVP in less than a day. Until it is fair I will be joining the dancers. I dont care for this tactic but I want better PVP option, with proper matchmaking, and a universally balanced gear. From what I have seen this is not going to stop. Everyday I run into at least one lemming on the field. They either constantly run into death or off a cliff, or dance. To be honest I am half interested to see if Bungie only cares about money or if they truly care about the Quality of their product. I am not getting my hope up but it will seek volumes about the company.

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                          • Whoa Gawain, you’re coming in hot! You need to slow your roll, You going to have a heart attack, bruh. I just don’t want to see another “Lost another Guardian, today” post.

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                            • Edited by Gawain: 12/11/2018 7:14:17 PM
                              I kind of thought so at first as well, NovaKaiser. I was disappointed to find it factual. Like I said. I enjoy PVP but what is offered here is not PVP. It is like pitting boy scouts against the marines and calling it a competition. Last night a friend made a new character. The balanced arenas are suppose to nullify level advantage. I made a new starter gun from my collection and kept my legendary gear. With his 10 power level pistol and starting gear we played until we were matched. He had to shoot me 4 time at point blank range to drop me. I shot once and he collapsed? The same weapon yet he could not overcome my armors perks and resistance score. Only a Troll would believe that this is balanced.

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                              • Hilarious

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