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7/22/2016 12:56:04 AM
57
The argument for AND against a tier system in Trials of Osiris
Trials of Osiris, I'm sure, was intended to be the beacon (hence Lighthouse) that shone to FPS fans around the world and would give them a compelling reason to sign up for Destiny and mix it up with the best of them.
However it seems to have lost its way somewhat.
There are three recurring points I keep seeing
1. Trials isn't for everyone
2. Tiered helps low skilled players, it hurts high skill players
3. Streamers and carries are killing trials
Let's take a look in a bit more detail
[u][b]1. Trials isn't for everyone[/b][/u]
This is actually very true. Trials is NOT for everyone.
Some people will never find friends, can't make friends, have social anxieties or will never have the time to commit to be good enough.
For the rest here's the reality of Destiny.
Destiny's cost to entry is pretty much the same for everyone. Therefore Trials isn't for everyone but it's certainly IS for anyone who buys the game.
[u][b]2. Tiered helps low skilled players, it hurts high skill players[/b][/u]
Tiered is intended to give all players of all abilities a competitive environment the matches their ability at each point in time they enter trials.
Believe it or not, a team of 3 who are trying Trials for the first time who meet a battle hardened team of 3 aren't going to learn anything and if this happens frequently their enthusiasm for trials will be dampened and eventually killed altogether.
This is bad for EVERYONE.
Regarding skill/ability some people will improve gradually and ascend the ranks others will find their comfort zone and stay there.
In either case, neither is wrong.
However there is nothing competitive about a skill mismatch in what is supposed to be a competitive arena. No-one wants to pay to watch the a World Champion square up against an amateur. The same applies in Destiny.
For the high skilled players who want to relax and not sweat each game, the answer is simple. Not trials.
Every player who enters trials should be facing competition that is around their own ability. If you meet someone much better or much worse someone is ending up with the short end of the stick and that only hurts the game as a whole.
[u][b] 3. Streamers and carries are killing trials[/b][/u]
This is not true but there is some fine print.
The format of trials hasn't been altered in over a year. So it's understandable that a team of 3 players who play together in their spare time might be frustrated at getting matched up against two professionals and a third person who is being carried.
In reality carries are a great demonstration of social unity. Also if someone is good at a game and wants to try to make a career out of it - good luck we should wish them all the best in their endeavors.
What we don't want to see is professionals meeting amateurs on a regular basis. That's not good for any game.
Trials of Osiris isn't the NFL or the EPL where there are massive barriers to even getting to kick a ball. This is a game mode when the only barrier is owning Destiny.
In that way anyone who tries their luck should be given the opportunity to do so at their own ability level.
Why should we do this? It is the right thing to do but more importantly - more people will play; more people will get better and that's the best outcome for EVERYONE.
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Trials matchmaking should just be like the y1 trials matchmaking
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Trials should be free for all
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1 ReplyTrials of Osiris is a broken joke. Any competition that was to take SERIOUSLY as a competition: 1. Stratifies competitors by skill level...and rewards those playing in the higher flights with better rewards. 2. They don't let people who have completed the competition (ie. gone flawless) go back and influence the outcome of the competition further. If you wanted to do Trials right...and have it stop being a corrosive influence on the community here's what you'd do. 1. For one month you'd have RANKED play in Elimination. Both individual and team. 2. After that you'd be assigned to one of FOUR flights of players based on skill level. Each flight having its own readily-identifiable (visually) loot stream. 3. Then you play out your Trials card WITHIN your assigned flight. a. If you lose you can keep trying to improve your card....but if you lose to often you get kicked down to a lower flight. b. If you win, you can keep coming back trying to improve your card...but win too often you kicked up to a higher flight. c. Go flawless...and you're done for that week. If you're playing in any lower flight, you get kicked up to the next higher flight for the next weeks play. The only people who would object to this classic arrangement for competitions with widely-varying skill levels in participants would be those looking to dominate weaker players.....or traffic in carrying them. IOWs...the streamers.
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5 RepliesEdited by StrictlyTy: 7/27/2016 9:35:15 PM[quote]The argument for AND against [b][i]catering to scrubs[/i][/b] in Trials of Osirirs.[/quote] Fixed that title for ya.
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Yr 2 trials is already better for low skill players compared to yr 1. Sure flawless got harder since yr1 but the normal rewards are optained easier, making flawless exclusive to good players but trials not worthless for lesser players. (Sry for my english btw)
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Edited by PRINCE_ALI_1985: 7/25/2016 9:22:25 PMLight house should not be exclusive [b]but flawless Card should be reward a team of elite PvPers[/b] How I would fix ToO -Get rid of boons and coins altogether. -There are 4 tiers they will act as a Check Point each have 3 matches finishing all 4 Tiers let you visit the light house. example in the spoiler. [spoiler] T1-0-0-0-@ T2-0-0-0-@ T3-0-0-0-@ T4-0-0-0=Light house visit[/spoiler] -Tier 1 requires 3 wins gives first armor reward ((low light)) losing will rest your progress to the beginning of Tier 1. -Tier 2 requires 3 wins gives 2nd armor reward ((low light)) losing will rest your progress to the beginning of Tier 2. -Tier 3 requires 3 wins gives first weapon ((low light)) reward losing will rest your progress to the beginning of Tier 3. -Tier 4 requires 3 wins gives 2nd weapon reward ((low light)) and visit the light house for the chest. losing will rest your progress to the beginning of Tier 4. Light house chest will give regular emblem high light Lv Primary and an armor. -Flawless win ((without losing any match)) gives Chrome skin primaries Max light, Flawless Emblem ((exotic)), Flawless Chrome shader, Chrome ghost and a chrome sparrow. Will be served as a package. -12 flawless wins is not an easy task get the best. ToO will have no SBMM, WBMM and it'll be focused on CBMM. ToO will have bounties and rep to increase ppl who want to grind it for stuff such as. -ships -shaders -weapons -armors -class items -emblems. Do this and you'll see a great increase in player base playing ToO. Regular players will take them 1-4 hours finishing a lighthouse run. That's my 2 cents anyway.
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6 RepliesEdited by Erijian: 7/23/2016 1:48:02 AMCan't see the point in a tier system, sorry. It's obvious that the Jaguars are a subpar football team, but it doesn't stop them from going against teams that are actually good like the Patriots because they're playing for the same prize, in the same "tournament". That's similar to how Trials of Osiris works; we all play in the same tier because we're after the same prize. Unless you want to make a "minor league" for new players, which has worse rewards. Then go ahead.
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127 RepliesTiered trials is the solution for amateurs If there were to be tiered trials, rewards should differ significantly between the skilled and unskilled. I will use a simple analogy for this. The owner of a small farm and a plantation owner both sell all their crops after harvest. The plantation owner having more land to harvest SHOULD get more money right. But if your logic were in place, both the small farmer and the plantation owner would get paid the same. I say the plantation owner get paid more for his hard work and the small farmer gets paid for his work. We arent communists. To separate based off skill with same rewards hurts skilled players, and as a well informed logical and sane republican. I am never in favor of handouts in any situation.
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1 ReplyLike the comments below, there should be a major league and minor league, then I think the minors get normal gear with the current flawless emblem, then give major leagues adept gear and a scarab emblem. But then we would run into the problem of pro players going into the minor league to stomp lesser players.
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5 RepliesHere's the thing. Trials was brought to destiny FOR the pvp players. A way for them to reach max light levels because they weren't concerned with pve. Obviously. If you're fluent in both pve and pvp, you'll do both. Trials isn't an activity for everyone. Most players won't do well, or make it to lighthouse. We all know this. That just comes with the game. If a tier system was put in place, the drops would have to differ in light level, according to your players light level and tier, and so would the lighthouse rewards. A tier 3 (lowest?) Shouldn't receive the same high level gear as a tier 1 (highest) And that would really suck for a tier 3 player who can't advance and be stuck in tier 3. For that reason alone, I don't see it happening.
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3 RepliesNo, here's how trials should work. When trials starts on friday everything is like how it is now with one difference. Once you go flawless that week on that character and you want to keep playing trials on that character after going flawless you and your teammates regardless if they have gone flawless yet on their characters this week or not are put in a separate matchmaking pool only against other players who have already gone flawless this week as well. 1. Streamer can't get easy wins after their first flawless so they won't be able to carry as easily. 2. Since the stat farmers and other scum are in a separate pool with people their skill level it will make it easier for less skilled groups to go flawless as the weekend progresses reducing the need for people to be carried.
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2 RepliesYour 3 vs their 3. The 16 seed has to play the 1 seed in the ncaa tournament and nobody cries about that. You want lighthouse rewards? Beat lighthouse competition.
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The fact that people want sbmm in trials after seeing all the problems It causes in every other playlist is really sad.
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2 RepliesI made a thread on this. ToO needs to be changed to a 6v6 Control format for a while. It's been 3v3 for long enough. Let's see the try-hards maintain K/D and ELO while playing Control - Oh wait... they are doing that in IB now... camp all match and capture nothing. K/D and ELO mean nothing in Control. It's all about team... ToO is supposed to be about team play... when 1 guy carries 2 over and over... there's no team play(there goes the 3v3 is more competitive argument). Capture points or you lose. Camp all match... you lose. Get in there... capture the zones... and use those baby soft knuckles for a little 1v1 melee action. I bet half the die hard snipers don't even know where their melee button is.
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4 RepliesYou don't get better unless you're getting beat, this is the dumbest idea I've heard in Errrrrrm weeks
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In all honesty the tiered system would benefit everyone. Having tiers or a ranking system would give the professional players something to work for. It would also limit new players from going up against players who have been to the lighthouse several times.
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8 Replies[quote] 2. Tiered helps low skilled players, it hurts high skill players Tiered is intended to give all players of all abilities a competitive environment the matches their ability at each point in time they enter trials. Believe it or not, a team of 3 who are trying Trials for the first time who meet a battle hardened team of 3 aren't going to learn anything and if this happens frequently their enthusiasm for trials will be dampened and eventually killed altogether. This is bad for EVERYONE. Regarding skill/ability some people will improve gradually and ascend the ranks others will find their comfort zone and stay there. In either case, neither is wrong. However there is nothing competitive about a skill mismatch in what is supposed to be a competitive arena. No-one wants to pay to watch the a World Champion square up against an amateur. The same applies in Destiny. For the high skilled players who want to relax and not sweat each game, the answer is simple. Not trials. Every player who enters trials should be facing competition that is around their own ability. If you meet someone much better or much worse someone is ending up with the short end of the stick and that only hurts the game as a whole.[/quote] This is really the key argument IMO. There is almost no legitimate reason why first-time trials players should be matched up against streamer pro's who are just looking to carry someone. If they're really that good, let them get matched up with a similarly skilled team with a similar amount of lighthouse appearances. While Trials isn't supposed to be for everyone, that doesn't mean that people should be turned away from it by making them face situations in which they have NO chance and will really not learn anything from it. This is just one of the many reasons I refuse to play trials. I don't think the format is good for one, even though I understand the principals. But 2, I don't think it matches people up fairly and 3, there are just way too many a-holes in trials. If you get killed even once when the round is over you can expect to see them dancing on your orb or teabagging.
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Interesting points you make here.Nice work.
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3 RepliesDestiny needs elemental primaries back. Make light house weapons have a random weapon with elemental damage. You then get the same chance at a random weapon without an element damage from bounty completion and not the same stupid artifact I get every damn time. The top players get to coddle their special lighthouse trophy weapons and everyone else has a reason to even think about testing their luck in ToO. If more people play then more people will have a shot at flawless. And make it 100% cbmm while we are at it. To go along with this Bungie needs to bring back Y1 Nightfalls with 3x burn with boot to orbit on team wipes. People will try to go for those elemental primaries. To bring more players into ToO add matchmaking. Those elemental primaries will be enough bait to bring in the player base with matchmaking. The people who actually put the effort in to coordinate a fire team will still have the advantage. The casual player needs a reason to play ToO. As it stands now there is literally nothing to gain because you'll just get your teeth kicked in for shitty rewards that get dismantled.
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Dont care.
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4 RepliesStreamer here (not big). Despite disagreeing with the post, I upvoted because I felt it was an objective analysis of both sides. I'd like to add to the discussion. I'm pretty biased to be not in favour of a tiered system, as most of my views come from assisting people to the lighthouse. We don't call them carries on my channel, as it's degrading to the assistee. Also, I'm not a God at this game so to go flawless with me you need to contribute in some way or another. I'll tell you a hard truth that I hate to say, but I think you all need to hear. A tiered system won't accomplish the goals you all have, which are closer games (derived from SBMM in Trials) and less carries (derived from pros not being able to play with weaker players). Streamers will just start logging into their followers accounts. I only have 1000 followers but they trust me greatly and would be more than happy to give me their account to not only get them a flawless but also 2 other followers at the same time. I'm not saying I would do this, but there are people who are already doing this for money. A tiered system would encourage more people to do this. This would actually make things worse, because now you'll be dealing with 3 pros, instead of 2 pros and an assistee. The reality is, there will always be a work around for a tiered system, and this the internet so people are going to expose it. Sorry guys, it's just how it is. I know it isn't fair and I feel for the people who can't go flawless. Good luck my friends. - Duke
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I have social issues but didn't stop me getting friends Carries are fine A tier system will kill trials being sweat after sweat game
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Change the rewards already I want a shotgun which has the same range as the party crasher, I want a handcannon with the stats of the baby hawk moon and auto rifle with the stats of Grimm or shadow price the rewards is all anyone care about and now that they opened up the reward pool I can't be brotherd playing it to get a dot cuase I know I never get it I 'lol just be given more beeping artifacts which should be given as o light prizes for competing matchs in the first place.
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I wonder how trials would work with an elder sigil type system? Pick one up every week and not have to return to the reef to get a new one. Maybe it'll curb all the ELO farmers out there? Just a thought.
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Trials is for everyone however the lighthouse or lit house is not for everyone
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Damn fine post my friend
