Disagree Seraph smg with 4th time and dragonfly is a great weapon. Seraph AR with 4th time and Vorpal is a great weapon. Seraph SAW with Clown cartridge and Vorpal is a great weapon....the seraph weapons are actually really good especially when you are using them in combination with the mods. Then you add in Fireteam members using mods as well. Its actually a lot of fun.

Yes they're good, but great I would say no, you're right though they certainly are no where near as bad as people think. I have the SMG with feeding frenzy and ambitious assassin, I pair it with a sword and have a riot, it's really good, but when I have to get serious I revert to tried and true. For me they need to work on Armour sets, instead of a cosmetic theme how about a set of armour that promotes underused perks and gives them a bonus that makes them viable. I mean it's a looter shooter but armour seems a bit meh, yeah you can have crazy movement or quick charging super, but there's really not much else to armour, they said they wanted to move to a more rpg style, armour to me seems obvious, as for weapon, ultimately it's perks that are the problem, not the guns. All I know is this, retiring weapons is a lazy answer to a far deeper problem, it also allows them to avoid the issue again in the future, by simply retiring allover again, I wish we could force them to solve the problem not work around it.