That's like saying people would get outraged over the makers of Tetris admitting to speeding up the drop rate of blocks was they progressed through the levels. It's pretty obvious, if you're getting outraged over a pretty obvious game mechanic because the developer didn't inform you it doesn't say much about you as a gamer.

[quote]That's like saying people would get outraged over the makers of Tetris admitting to speeding up the drop rate of blocks was they progressed through the levels.[/quote]How is that relevant? The blocks move faster because the game gets harder as you progress, this is a mechanic that forces you to swap to different gear, annoying to be sure especially when they don't have the decency to confirm it but certainly not a mechanic that's intended [quote]It's pretty obvious, if you're getting outraged over a pretty obvious game mechanic because the developer didn't inform you it doesn't say much about you as a gamer.[/quote] It's not a intended active game mechanic lol...it's a mistake they left over from d1 and didn't bother to fix

So you're saying it's a left over mechanic from D1 strikes/NF modifiers when it's applicable to every game activity? You might have had a point if it was only present in strikes & NF. Seriously gamers these days, it's all a game of follow the leader, they rely on YouTube to figure out how to play a game, they rely only others to tell them what weapons work best and follow the meta it's no wonder why you're outraged when you haven't been told about a very noticeable game mechanic that has been present for 9 months!!

[quote]So you're saying it's a left over mechanic from D1 strikes/NF modifiers when it's applicable to every game activity? You might have had a point if it was only present in strikes & NF.[/quote]No that's not what I'm saying, juggler was a hidden debuff in d1 as well, before it was a strike and nf modifier, hence why people ran out of ammo during every conflux run at vog and other encouters during raids, not sure if it's a bug left over or a annoying way bungie are trying to make us play thier way but it was always in d1 as well; not just as a modifier. [quote]Seriously gamers these days, it's all a game of follow the leader, they rely on YouTube to figure out how to play a game, they rely only others to tell them what weapons work best and follow the meta[/quote]This is simply you ranting against streamers, it has no application to me, go post it on thier comment section[quote]it's no wonder why you're outraged when you haven't been told about a very noticeable game mechanic that has been present for 9 months!![/quote]Not being told? I don't think you read my or ops post. IT'S OBVIOUS it was always there since d1, [u][i]BUT[/i][/u] either bungie should come out and say it's a bug and they're working on a fix [u]OR[/u] that it's intended and possibly face more critique, just ignoring it has been there solution thus far but the bug or problem [u]should be addressed[/u]

And yet there was no outrage over this until it was revealed 9 months later, in fact there wasn't even a post addressing this as a bug or an in game issue up until now aside from the ammo economy, which people would have been fine with if they worked out the obvious in game mechanic themselves. Sadly you had to get developer confirmation of an "obvious in-game mechanic" that existed since D1 for you to jump on this faux outrage bandwagon.

[quote]And yet there was no outrage over this until it was revealed 9 months later, in fact there wasn't even a post addressing this as a bug or an in game issue up until now aside from the ammo economy, which people would have been fine with if they worked out the obvious in game mechanic themselves.[/quote] Wrong, it's been brought up before and debated here quite often throughout d1, it was made totally obvious when people realized they could exploit it to gain heavy drops only during crota runs by TDB There was always some anger but there were (and still is) bigger issues, only know that it's been confirmed can we ask why it was done/never fixed [quote]Sadly you had to get developer confirmation of an "obvious in-game mechanic" that existed since D1 for you to jump on this faux outrage bandwagon.[/quote] Wrong as shown above, the dev confirming it simply opens the door to a fix, let's not pretend this issue is new simply because he finally acknowledged the community was right - now that we got a solid answer we can work to get the bug removed

Recap: - The effect or an extent of the effect has been in place since D1 (yet no one just assumes it's a game mechanic) - The effect has been debated in D1 - The effect is so OBVIOUS in D2, yet no one brought it up despite its existence since D1 and despite the debates that happened years ago. (and still after years of this effect being in two games it's still not accepted as just a game mechanic) - The effect generates outrage when the developer acknowledges the effect 9 months after people have been playing with it, with little to no complaints till now. Seriously? After an effect has been in a game long enough let alone been in 2 iterations of a game it's generally accepted as a game mechanic it's no different to Tetris speeding up it's block drop rate as you progress through the levels. As a gamer you should notice these and adapt. But you have to have it confirmed so you can complain about it. My comment earlier regarding this generation of gamers just being a big game of follow the leader is definitely applicable to you.

[quote]Recap: - The effect or an extent of the effect has been in place since D1 (yet no one just assumes it's a game mechanic) - The effect has been debated in D1 - The effect is so OBVIOUS in D2, yet no one brought it up despite its existence since D1 and despite the debates that happened years ago. (and still after years of this effect being in two games it's still not accepted as just a game mechanic) - The effect generates outrage when the developer acknowledges the effect 9 months after people have been playing with it, with little to no complaints till now.[/quote] - It has been brought up here on the forums till now, only it didn't generate as many responses as there was never any confirmation or denying on bungies part -Hardly causes outrage, exp nerfs caused outrage, this is a annoying bug or forced pointless mechanic that has now been confirmed as active and as such can now be addressed. Claiming this to be in game before bungie actually confirmed it has always had naysayers and skeptics claiming the bug wasn't there, by confirming it they open the door to change. That's it. [quote]Seriously? After an effect has been in a game long enough let alone been in 2 iterations of a game it's generally accepted as a game mechanic it's no different to Tetris speeding up it's block drop rate as you progress through the levels.[/quote]Except that's a fully intended mechanic that's designed to be in the game, as you progress it's one of the only ways to make Tetris harder. Juggler [u]is nothing[/u] like that, you could make the compassion if after playing Tetris for a bit all of a sudden you could only put pieces down lengthwise. You don't have that restriction do you? Ok, in d2 you do, use a gun (read intended in a fps) ling enough and it won't drop ammo for you, hardly a mechanic and if it is it's a pointless one there to annoy a player trying to use the most optimal weapon in a shooter looter.... [quote]As a gamer you should notice these and adapt[/quote]Except it's not a mechanic, it's simply denying you ammo in a shooting game, you may as well claim deleting shaders one at a time is a mechanic and you should notice you only dismantle them one at a time and adapt - brilliant[quote]But you have to have it confirmed so you can complain about it.[/quote]You have to have it confirmed to make any headway getting it fixed yes, if one side won't admit there [u]is[/u] a problem there's not much the other can do...[quote]My comment earlier regarding this generation of gamers just being a big game of follow the leader is definitely applicable to you.[/quote]Hardly, you know zerooo about me so keep making assumptions, fyi when every d1 streamer on the planet was making vids saying how d2 would save us all I was making forum posts petitioning mot for 4s only, not for our subclasse customization to be destroyed, not for 30 fps with no servers, not for the special weapon removal and not for the long af cooldowns we had at beta. -Players discover bug -Bungie ignores -Players can't do anything with them ignoring -Years later bungie admits -Guy makes a post bringing awareness to it being confirmed -We can now address the issue -Some people think people just figured this out now lul -Suddenly it's an in game intentional mechanic (not getting ammo in a fps shooter)

I just comment on what I see, the shoe fits. [quote]-Players discover bug[/quote] Players discover a game mechanic that they consider a bug [quote]-Bungie ignores[/quote] Because it is a game mechanic [quote]-Players can't do anything with them ignoring[/quote] Yeah, they just complete end game activities by playing the game with the "bug". [quote]-Years later bungie admits[/quote] To a game mechanic [quote]-Guy makes a post bringing awareness to it being confirmed[/quote] To a game mechanic [quote]-We can now address the issue[/quote] Address what? That you have given sufficient ammo to finish end game activities if you changed your weapons once in a while? [quote]-Some people think people just figured this out now lul[/quote] Gamers adapt and continue the playing the game assuming it's a game mechanic and finish end game activities, a portion jump on a bandwagon claiming a game mechanic that has been around for years is a bug and demand fixes. [quote]-Suddenly it's an in game intentional mechanic (not getting ammo in a fps shooter[/quote] Apparently getting energy ammo when using kinetic and kinetic when using energy is called not getting ammo... strange. Apparently people can finish end game activities in a FPS by not getting any ammo, strange.

[quote]Players discover a game mechanic that they consider a bug Because it is a game mechanic Yeah, they just complete end game activities by playing the game with the bug To a game mechanic To a game mechanic[/quote]You decided it's a game mechanic? A bungie dev admired it was in the game, that makes it not a bug? Interesting. And guess what? If it is a mechanic it should be removed, there's no reason players shouldn't have thier preferred ammo type drop off kills. There's no reason for the mechanic at all actually, what you wrote Is pure delusion. [quote]Address what? That you have given sufficient ammo to finish end game activities if you changed your weapons once in a while?[/quote] That either it's A) A bug and should be fixed or B) Is a way for the dev to force you to play thier way, and should be removed. [quote]Gamers adapt and continue the playing the game assuming it's a game mechanic and finish end game activities, a portion jump on a bandwagon claiming a game mechanic that has been around for years is a bug and demand fixes.[/quote]Gamers grudgingly accept there's nothing they can do if bungie won't admit there's anything and simply shake thier heads =/= adapting and wanting it to stay, not a hard concept to understand yet the struggle is real for some. [quote]Apparently getting energy ammo when using kinetic and kinetic when using energy is called not getting ammo... strange.[/quote]You know perfectly well special is often necessary when fighting any shielded adds, but keep denying basic gameplay by all means [quote]Apparently people can finish end game activities in a FPS by not getting any ammo, strange.[/quote]And player often run out during raids especially (making content harder simply for lacking basic equipment to fight back) and need to wait for the mercy refill (which all players know about, guess your theory a out always getting weapons is false huh?)

[quote]You decided it's a game mechanic? A bungie dev admired it was in the game, that makes it not a bug? Interesting. And guess what? If it is a mechanic it should be removed, there's no reason players shouldn't have thier preferred ammo type drop off kills. There's no reason for the mechanic at all actually, what you wrote Is pure delusion.[/quote] You're the one claiming it as bug, when everyone acknowledged it was a game mechanic which was later revealed as a "hidden game mechanic". Wow your arrogance is really astounding. Read the article if you want confirmation. [quote]And player often run out during raids especially (making content harder simply for lacking basic equipment to fight back) and need to wait for the mercy refill (which all players know about, guess your theory a out always getting weapons is false huh?)[/quote] And yet we have people running flawless raids (no mercy ammo) under this "bugged" system.

[quote]You're the one claiming it as bug, when everyone acknowledged it was a game mechanic which was later revealed as a "hidden game mechanic". Wow your arrogance is really astounding. Read the article if you want confirmation.[/quote]Everyone claims it was a mechanic? WRONG (again) the [u]writer[/u] of said article refers to it as a hidden mechanic, no where does bungie state it's an intended feature designed to force you to swap guns. Way to dream big though. Btw even if they [u]had[/u] said it was an intended mechanic the point would still stand, it's an annoying feature that has no purpose but to annoy players trying to use what they're most comfortable or most ideal in the current situation. [quote]And yet we have people running flawless raids (no mercy ammo) under this "bugged" system.[/quote]You realize players don't always run out right? Often ammo for the gun you're using does indeed drop, and sometimes you're left high and dry because bungie don't like that you used a single gun you think is currently the best choice.

[quote]Everyone claims it was a mechanic? WRONG (again) the writer of said article refers to it as a hidden mechanic, no where does bungie state it's an intended feature designed to force you to swap guns. Way to dream big though. Btw even if they had said it was an intended mechanic the point would still stand, it's an annoying feature that has no purpose but to annoy players trying to use what they're most comfortable or most ideal in the current situation.[/quote] As you pointed out earlier it existed in the game since D1, and yet you still think it wasn't intentional? And somehow I'm the delusional one? [quote]You realize players don't always run out right? Often ammo for the gun you're using does indeed drop, and sometimes you're left high and dry because bungie don't like that you used a single gun you think is currently the best choice.[/quote] Last time I checked Destiny is a loot shooter with 3 weapons slot, you really think a game developer would be happy for players to get comfortable with using one single weapon throughout the entire game? Think of the difficulty level of a game if you could easily pass levels using one single weapon. Gamers that work out the game the mechanics will find a way to beat the system. People that rely on others for information on how to play in the game, what to complain about the game like yourself.... well they just get left stuck complaining about mechanics being a bug because it's too hard.

[quote]As you pointed out earlier it existed in the game since D1, and yet you still think it wasn't intentional? And somehow I'm the delusional one?[/quote]You realize they reused the same engine which brought over many other old glitches including leaving a loading zone and coming back for double planetary materials/public events etc right? So yes, you sure af are the delusional one here... [quote]Last time I checked Destiny is a loot shooter with 3 weapons slot, you really think a game developer would be happy for players to get comfortable with using one single weapon throughout the entire game? Think of the difficulty level of a game if you could easily pass levels using one single weapon.[/quote]1. It's not up to devs to dictate how a player should enjoy the game, if he wants to use notjing but uriels gift more power to him, the difficulty would remain exactly the same, using an elemental auto instead of a kinetic auto does not suddenly make the game easier lol, I hope that's not what you were suggesting... [quote]Gamers that work out the game the mechanics will find a way to beat the system.[/quote]As indeed every destiny player has, doesn't mean it's not an issue that should be addressed just because they've lived with it before, I'm sure you think sexual harassment victims shouldn't come forward if it happened awhile ago because they lived with it in the past too huh? Smh [quote]People that rely on others for information on how to play in the game, what to complain about the game like yourself.... well they just get left stuck complaining about mechanics being a bug because it's too hard.[/quote]Like I said before clueless I was one of the [u]first[/u] people to critique the changes that were coming with d2, while all the streamer and yt fools were hyping it up, you won't be able to pull that one on me 🤣 As for things being to hard did you just suggest not having ammo for your guns = making content hard? LOL delusional was spot on for you 😂 Fyi I've done every pve content from d1 - d2 with no problems including spire, the bug is still an annoying issue and should not be in the game period.

[quote]You realize they reused the same engine which brought over many other old glitches including leaving a loading zone and coming back for double planetary materials/public events etc right? So yes, you sure af are the delusional one here...[/quote] So you're saying a game mechanic that has been acknowledged as such which was then clarified as being a hidden game mechanic that has been in the game for years and had a more robust version of the said mechanic as a modifier in NF/heroics. Had a lot of debates on it over the years without comment from Bungie is a bug? That it wasn't intentional? This, when Bungie has addressed bugs previously? Really? I'm sorry, I can't comprehend how someone could be so lacking in the logic department. [quote]1. It's not up to devs to dictate how a player should enjoy the game, if he wants to use notjing but uriels gift more power to him, the difficulty would remain exactly the same, using an elemental auto instead of a kinetic auto does not suddenly make the game easier lol, I hope that's not what you were suggesting...[/quote] And yet it's a game mechanic that millions of players have used and successfully with little complaint. It's a game mechanic that many gamers still play with and don't know what the big deal is. [quote]As indeed every destiny player has, doesn't mean it's not an issue that should be addressed just because they've lived with it before, I'm sure you think sexual harassment victims shouldn't come forward if it happened awhile ago because they lived with it in the past too huh? Smh[/quote] Sign of desperation when you have to stoop to such extreme and irrelevant examples. [quote]Like I said before clueless I was one of the first people to critique the changes that were coming with d2, while all the streamer and yt fools were hyping it up, you won't be able to pull that one on me 🤣 As for things being to hard did you just suggest not having ammo for your guns = making content hard? LOL delusional was spot on for you 😂[/quote] This is what you said earlier: [quote]And player often run out during raids especially (making content harder simply for lacking basic equipment to fight back) and need to wait for the mercy refill (which all players know about, guess your theory a out always getting weapons is false huh?)[/quote] Hmmm looks like you're the one making those statements. [quote]Fyi I've done every pve content from d1 - d2 with no problems including spire, the bug is still an annoying issue and should not be in the game period.[/quote] So what started off as a major issue of ammo denial that prevented players from shooting their favourite guns and completing activities is now just an annoying issue? Why? Oh that's right because you don't want to appear to look like a scrub.

I think it's time to stop replying here I took the time to go through this entire exchange and boy oh boy you don't come across as very smart, he's made you look like a damn idiot, some of your replies prove his point while others you try to bring up (like it not being that serious of an issue) are ones he said off the bat. Either you're a troll just replying without sense or...well you've just been replying without sense. I suggest a break from the forums, people will probably laugh at you now, at least for awhile Gonna have to judge this and hand the W of this argument to haunter here :/

[quote]So you're saying a game mechanic that has been acknowledged as such which was then clarified as being a hidden game mechanic that has been in the game for years and had a more robust version of the said mechanic as a modifier in NF/heroics. Had a lot of debates on it over the years without comment from Bungie is a bug? That it wasn't intentional? This, when Bungie has addressed bugs previously? Really?[/quote]Can you not read? It was never clarified from bungie as to if it was an intentional mechanic or a bug they couldn't/were too lazy to fix. The very fact that it [i]was[/i] a nf modifier only strengthens my point so thanks I guess and yes; had it been a mechanic they would have said so years ago, not kept quiet. [quote]I'm sorry, I can't comprehend how someone could be so lacking in the logic department.[/quote]You cannot apparently comprehend anything at all so makes sense I suppose. [quote]And yet it's a game mechanic that millions of players have used and successfully with little complaint. It's a game mechanic that many gamers still play with and don't know what the big deal is.[/quote]1. Players suffered through division and mcc even when it was broken, players playing it =/= everything's fine, ridiculous argument. 2. I never claimed this bug was a big deal and certainly there are bigger issues; doesn't mean this bug isn't an issue that should be addressed and resolved. [quote]Sign of desperation when you have to stoop to such extreme and irrelevant examples.[/quote]Not at all, this reply is merely your cop out since you've been cornered, how typical of you, keep changing tracks though. [quote]This is what you said earlier: [quote]And player often run out during raids especially (making content harder simply for lacking basic equipment to fight back) and need to wait for the mercy refill (which all players know about, guess your theory a out always getting weapons is false huh?)[/quote] Hmmm looks like you're the one making those statements.[/quote]Except having no ammo =/= harder content is the sense that difficulty has increased, only the game is refusing to drop you the necessary tools. If for some reason supers weren't charging the game mechanics (adds, boss, requirements) haven't gotten harder, only to the player that's suddenly denied thier bonuses does the game become annoying and they're forced into using alternatives [quote]So what started off as a major issue of ammo denial that prevented players from shooting their favourite guns and completing activities is now just an annoying issue? Why? Oh that's right because you don't want to appear to look like a scrub.[/quote] I never claimed it was a major issue you apparently can't read a word I write smh, it's an annoying bug that should both be addressed and removed as it will leave players high and dry without ammo in a looter shooter, this isn't a survival horror game where players should be watching for ammo counts clown. As for trying to call me a scrub LMAO who's the one that can't complete spire or half thier other raids? Seems to me like you could use all the ammo you can get trash can 🤣😂

[quote]The very fact that it was a nf modifier only strengthens my point so thanks I guess and yes; had it been a mechanic they would have said so years ago, not kept quiet.[/quote] A more robust version as modifier actually strengthens my point. What other in game mechanics have they disclosed to date? Compare that to how many bugs they have addressed over the years. Those two points only strengthens the view that it was an intentional mechanic. [quote]As for trying to call me a scrub LMAO who's the one that can't complete spire or half thier other raids? Seems to me like you could use all the ammo you can get trash can 🤣😂[/quote] I've always maintained I'm a scrub that's never changed. Unlike you though I'm not asking for changes to game mechanics to make the game easier. I'll adapt.

[quote][quote]The very fact that it was a nf modifier only strengthens my point so thanks I guess and yes; had it been a mechanic they would have said so years ago, not kept quiet.[/quote] A more robust version as modifier actually strengthens my point. What other in game mechanics have they disclosed to date? Compare that to how many bugs they have addressed over the years. Those two points only strengthens the view that it was an intentional mechanic.[/quote]No it really doesn't, it proves mine, by making a modifier with said perk it's self evident it wasn't intended to be there full time, your logic is flawed at best here and plain wrong lol, bungie have stressed many bugs to be sure, but not all, there were several that they couldn't get rid of and remain in d1 to this day, it's likely this bug is one they'd have to change significant coding for which they are always wary of the to the clunky engine [quote][quote]As for trying to call me a scrub LMAO who's the one that can't complete spire or half thier other raids? Seems to me like you could use all the ammo you can get trash can 🤣😂[/quote] I've always maintained I'm a scrub that's never changed. Unlike you though I'm not asking for changes to game mechanics to make the game easier. I'll adapt.[/quote] Except as I wrote not having ammo does not mean the game has become harder, the very fact that you somehow think it does proves how clueless you are.

[quote]Except as I wrote not having ammo does not mean the game has become harder, the very fact that you somehow think it does proves how clueless you are. [/quote] That's pretty much what you wrote earlier. [quote]And player often run out during raids especially [b](making content harder simply for lacking basic equipment to fight back)[/b] and need to wait for the mercy refill (which all players know about, guess your theory a out always getting weapons is false huh?)[/quote]

As I wrote before (several times now) Making the game harder by removing basic mechanics you have does [u]not[/u] mean the game has become harder in itself, the adds, boss and mechanics have remained the same, only YOUR equipment is nerfed. If you're playing Mario and in middle you lose the ability to double jump the puzzle and bowser encounter has remained the same, only it's harder for you because your basic gameplay equipment is gone. Getting lucky with ammo drops does not make the encounter itself easier, nor does not having ammo, only it makes the game harder to play. Are you understating the difference between gameplay being harder due to mechanics like boss, adds and what you need to do and gameplay being harder because you don't have basic tools? Good

That's a long winded way to admit that I wasn't the one the bring up that the mechanic makes the game harder and to explain why you brought it up.

That's pretty besides the point, taking away basic tools should not be a way of increasing difficulty even assuming this isn't a bug (which I still have no reason to assume why it's not)