Friendly research from the community- Honestly got tired of the complaint threads so I decided to take 2 friends into rumble to test. I first tested the defense both with max armor and with the extra armor you can get with a certain chest piece when using a solar based subclass. results: I had 2 snipers used. stillpeircer and black spindle. still has impact of 31 which covers 1000 yard stare and LDR. black spindle has 37 which covers black hammer and eferdeets spear. the 004 sniper was not used but has an impact of 34. snipers were used at point blank so no damage drop off was present. With max armor the 31 impact snipers leave me with a tiny sliver of health. which means the 34 impact sniper and 37 impact snipers will one shot me. With additional armor the 37 sniper one shot me. which means 3 snipers can currently one shot headshot the sunbreaker when they have the most armor possible. the 34 might be able to do it. and any sniper with a damage proc including the 31 snipers will be able to one shot. Next I tested golden gun. The result was the same both times. Point blank a golden gun will not one shot the sunbreaker. but they both leave you with a sliver of health. so if the sunbreaker has literally taken any damage at all and gets hit by golden gun they will die. It's important to note that you have to fully spec into armor in order to live from golden gun. If you don't take max armor golden gun will one shot you. Lastly I tested the damage of the hammer on direct impacts. To confirm my idea that it has the same damage model of arc blade swipes. When running max armor on blade dancer with the extra armor you take 2 hammers to kill. you're left with half of your red health bar. then I tested it against a person with max armor on storm trance but no extra armor and got the same result. to me this means it's got the same damage of the arc blade melee. If hammer of sol does any extra damage at all its so small that it's not going to matter in 90% of situations. Conclusion: the sunbreaker mid super naturally has a slight armor advantage. and it's honestly so slight it doesn't matter in my opinion. you have potentially 4 snipers with out any special perk roll that can one shot head shot. and if you are using golden gun all you have to do is hit them with anything like a nade or knife and then golden gun and they are dead. I understand people don't like that the sunbreaker can even survive it at all. However they are the tank class and all titan sub classes can tank a golden gun. so it's consistent. and hammer of sol has average damage. needing 2 hammers to kill a majority of people mid super. of course if the target has low armor it's a one hit. But everyone is always telling me max armor is the way to go in crucible. so if you aren't running it you willingly accept the concequences. end of story. I didn't test all sub classes on damage with the hammer because the 2 I did test with different situations yielded the same results. Though if someone proves me wrong with footage and explains the situation i'll retract my statement. I also didn't test sword swings or rockets. Simply because anyone mid super (bar golden gun and radiance with no radiant skin) can tank 2 sword swings and if any of the subclasses (bar the same 2) spec for max armor can survive a rocket. simply put it's not a new thing. armor always protected you from rockets and now from 2 burst deaths. and the swords follow the same damage model as arc blade does. Hopefully this thread gets around and people stop complaining about how tanky they are or how stupid strong hammer damage is. EDIT: I completely forgot to mention the shotgun testing done. I managed to survive a conspiracy D headshot at point blank when I had the max armor+ the additional armor from the chest piece. with out the additional armor from the chest piece I die. So High impact shotguns will one shot sunbreakers if they are headshots 90% of the time.

Guys I just want to point out that titans are meant to be damage sponging tanks, it's what they are meant to have over other classes. As striker and defender, depending on how you build it you can be incredibly hard to kill in your super, like unstoppable and armor of light. These two classes are less aggressive then sunbreaker. Now sunbreaker is still along the lines of what titans represent, but the only difference that sunbreakers have over defender and striker is that its an offensive tank class. A class where we hunt down the target instead of letting the target poke at us from a distance. Titans are meant to storm the battlefield just like hunters are suppose to be stealthy and quick. Going invisible and dodge rolling are examples of how bungie wanted hunters to be used. Stealthily sneaking up on people or getting out of situations that would spell death if you got caught. And this goes for warlocks as well. They are meant to have big and explosive crowd controlling magic. They are meant to reign down terror from either a distance or upclose and personally. Now then onto the super, I've been a titan since year one and a sun breaker since the launch of ttk. And the hammer doesn't have to be a 1 hit to other supers. And gg for example can be a 1 hit to sun breakers. It depends on your armor in your class. Titans that run max armor, which should be all of them in my opinion, are going to survive a lot of everything thrown at them. As it should be. But I've gone against storm callers running high armor and they needed 2 hammers to kill. Often times I don't get the second hammer off fast enough to kill them. If you run low armor expect to take big damage. And if your lucky enough to hit a nova bomber mid air, you better pray they don't have high armor or your not gonna kill them in time. Same for sunsingers. Golden gun has range over all other supers, requiring hunters to use their sharp shooting skills to gun down massive threats from a distance. Blade dancers that run high armor are just about as dangerous as sunbreakers aswell. Minus the hammer throw which is fairly easy to out last. And I don't even need to talk about how many times night stalkers have canceled out my super or cross mapped me with their bow. I guess what I'm saying is each class can be built to pierce another class, it's a matter of how you utilize your strengths and bulk your weaknesses

Youre a grown vagina for even using the hammer of sol my 3 year old cousin can use that class and go positive in pvp.

Titans are literally the fastest class in the game if you know how to "skate" effectively, have the most armor, and can basically have the same recovery as warlocks. I find it hilarious how sunbreakers can one shot a blade dancer. It's so unbalanced that I can't even combat a sunbreaker with my own super. Ridiculous.

So golden gun one hits sunsinger and ram, while it doesn't on the sunbreaker

You either have a lot of damage or a lot of health. Having both is too unbalanced. I'm tired of people defending everything. Yes, you're a titan and should have a lot of health. But that damned hammer (Only in PvP) needs a nerf. I don't care if you're invincible, you just need to do a lot less damage. I'd say reducing the duration and increasing the amount of bar you use per hit, WHILE in PvP.

I agree that damage resistance isn't the way to go. Lopping off 5% damage resistance isn't going to stop this super from being OP. It needs to be toned down offensively. The first thing that should happen is shortening the duration, OR make the hammers use much more super energy. They also should deal less damage, so you cannot one-shot other supers with damage reduction. It should take two hammers to kill a player in Radiance and Arc Blade. Golden Gun just needs to be buffed to deal enough damage that it can OHKO HAmmer of Sol. GG sacrifices damage resistance and is limited to 3 shots. It should have the spike damage needed to put Hammer down.

If the titan lose a bit so the Stormtrance and the bladedancer need it too ;)

No one is saying that the damage resistance needs to be nerfed for PvE. But is is clearly out of balance in PvP. Golden Gun has a OHK ability at range....but the Hunter himself is pretty fragile. So he can be taken out with other supers and with rapid/accurate fire. Sunsingers are tanks...but their super is only powerful at short range (Melee and fusion grenades.) So you can take a SS out by stepping back and DPSing them down at range. But no other Guaridan in the PVP game has the same degree of damage resistanc AND long-range ability to deliver OHKs than do Sunbreakers. i believe tha tthe lethality of the hammers is fine the way it is. But he damage reduction----for that level of lethaltiy need sto be dialed back cosiderably.

Golden gun doesnt one shot the sol of hammer

Really, you think that the ONLY super with that has both ranged attacks and a massive damage resistance is balanced? The ONLY one that can survive GG is balanced?

You do realize titans are the fastest characters in the game with sunbreaker also having the same amount of recovery a warlock can have right? Doesn't seem fair to me.