You know, I generally stop listening the moment somebody says "Guys! There's a simple easy solution to all our problems, it's crazy that nobody else has seen it!" The reason nobody has done it yet is usually because it wouldn't work.

1000% agreed with you Bungie needs to get more players into the game, more new players & keep them playing BUT bungie kills fun, constantly. Even Dungeons and Raids. My friends used to enjoy that stuff but it got harder and harder, more symbols to memorize, less mistakes could be made or a wipe would reset 25 minutes of setup for DPS and over time ALL my D1 friends quit D2 and quit destiny. BUT Saltagreepo is almost winning day 1 contest dungeon today, and the rest of the players can't compete with that and the majority will probably never beat the dungeon all while Saltagreepo will play it 3 times and then in 2 weeks complain there's nothing to do in the game, he wants more challenges..... SMH

[quote]The power fantasy...[/quote] I don't believe this is the issue. We are exiting what has been the [u]single[/u] most [i]potent[/i], most [i]imbalanced[/i] sandbox we've ever seen. [b][i]Power[/i] isn't lacking.[/b] [u][b]Purpose is.[/b][/u] [i]Destiny 2[/i] is a [b]Looter Shooter[/b] at it's core. [b]Agree?[/b] If so, [i]keep[/i] reading. In being a [b]Looter Shooter[/b], the core gameplay loop of [i]Destiny 2[/i] is [b][u]chasing bigger & better Loot.[/u][/b] Welp, that's become a [b]problem[/b] for numerous reasons. [b]Firstly[/b], that [i]wildly imbalanced[/i] [b]sandbox[/b] I referenced. [b]Abilities[/b] are composing [b]70-80%[/b] of competitive Fireteams' [b]kills[/b] in activities. That's a [i]far cry[/i] from the [b]50:50 Vision[/b] the [i]Devs[/i] have repeatedly referenced & fixated upon with past balances. My point here is that [b]gunplay[/b] is [i]heavily downplayed[/i] in the current sandbox. [b]Secondly[/b], [u]what little gunplay remains[/u] is [b]dominated[/b] by a niche of weapon archetypes. In [i]PVE[/i] this is predominantly [b]Double Special[/b] loadouts, involving [i]Area Denials, Rocket Sidearms & Rapid Shottys[/i]. In [i]PVP[/i] it is [i]High Impact Pulses, 120 HCs & Precision Shotguns[/i]. These have [b]all[/b] been problematic in their respective content for quite some time. [b]This effectively suppresses the demand for grinding[/b]. [b]WHAT[/b] is the [i]purpose[/i] of [u]grinding[/u] [b]IF[/b] the gear [b]ISN'T[/b] [i]bigger[/i] or [i]better[/i]? The [i]only[/i] viable answer would be [b]"To grind in the hopes that one day it is relevant"[/b]. But when it [i]isn't[/i] relevant, you're sitting on a [i]useless[/i] pile of [i]junk[/i] you've [b]wasted time[/b] on [u]grinding[/u]. [b]MANY[/b] out there recognize this as an issue. They recognize [i]nothing[/i] is [b]better[/b] than "[i]x[/i]" so [u]why[/u] [b]chase[/b] "[i]y[/i]"? The [b]third[/b] and [i]final[/i] issue plaguing the game is.....[b]Crafting[/b]. Let me start this off by stating the following- [b]RNG Insurance[/b] is an [i]absolute must[/i]. Gamers value their time being respected. This is already an existing issue outlined with the second position. [b]Crafting[/b] has provided [b]RNG Insurance[/b]. [b]HOWEVER[/b], the way it has been managed over the span of its implementation has been nothing short of atrocious. We went from chasing [i]random[/i] [b]Red Borders[/b], to [b]Red Borders[/b] for [b]Activity Completion[/b] to [b]Weekly Focusable Red Borders[/b]- all the while you [b]STILL[/b] had to use the damn gun, kill stuff & level it for the perks you wanted- to using [b]Cores[/b] to powerlevel a weapon we then shoot twice & vault. [b]Crafting[/b] has been horribly managed over the span of its implementation. I have to reiterate this, because it's not that [b]Crafting[/b] doesn't hold potential, its just been managed poorly in this franchise. But why is [b]Crafting[/b] a problem? [b]Crafting[/b] introduced immeasurable [i]Power Creep[/i] to the [b]Loot Pool[/b]. [i]Bungie[/i] had [b]NO[/b] choice to but to continue introducing [i]"Bigger & Better"[/i] options, to maintain the fundamentals of [i]Destiny 2[/i], ie [b]Looter Shooterisms[/b]. Simultaneously, [b]Crafting[/b] [i]neutralized[/i] other non-craftable gear, as the [u]insurance[/u] of a roll vs [b]RNG[/b] [i]reduced[/i] [b]Activity Engagement[/b]. The conundrum has been rather akin to the ideologies I laid out in [b]Position 2[/b], that being [i]"Why '[b]y[/b]' if '[b]x[/b]' is better?"[/i]. Players [i]chose[/i] [b]insurance[/b] [i]over[/i] [b]RNG[/b] and in return, variety concerning engagement dwindled. In response, [b]MORE[/b] patterns [b]AND[/b] harmonizers hit the pool during [i]Lightfall[/i]. However, these concepts backfired as [b]Activity Engagement[/b] continued to dwindle in variety. Entering [i]The Final Shape[/i], one of these adjustments has been to [i]remove[/i] [b]Crafting[/b] altogether in the hopes to stimulate engagement as the [b]shopping cart effect[/b] is [i]mitigated[/i]. Instead, this too has [b]backfired[/b], as the [i]protectionisms[/i] against [b]RNG[/b] are alleviated, leaving the playerbase at the mercy of the [b]time killing casino[/b]. [b]EVERY[/b] [b]AAA Developer[/b] is pursuing not [i]just[/i] a [b]financial investment[/b] from their playerbase, but a [b]time investment[/b]. A wildly [i]imbalanced[/i] sandbox has reduced the [u]demand[/u] for [b]Loot[/b] and has [i]pigeonholed[/i] what [b]Loot[/b] is [i]viable[/i]. The mismanagement concerning the implementation & balance of [b]Crafting[/b] further [i]killed[/i] of what [b]Loot[/b] is [i]viable[/i], [i]redirected[/i] [b]Activity Engagement[/b], and furthered the "[b]x > y[/b], so [b]WHY y[/b]" ideology to the grind. The [b]REMOVAL[/b] of [b]Crafting[/b] [i]killed[/i] [b]RNG[/b] protectionisms and reintroduced the [b]Time Killing Casino[/b] so many wanted out of, that initially drove the [b]Insurance Policies[/b] provided by [b]Crafting[/b]. So not only is [b]Loot[/b] [i]mostly[/i] [b]irrelevant[/b] thanks to the [i]sandbox[/i], there are [b]severe limitations[/b] on what is [b]relevant[/b], and not only are there [b]severe limitations[/b] on what is [b]relevant[/b], there are [b]limited activities[/b] to obtain what is [b]relevant[/b], and not only are there [b]limited activities[/b] for obtaining '[i]relevant[/i]' [b]Loot[/b], but it's now [i]complete[/i] [b]RNG[/b] determining your reward. [b]Is it not obvious why this gaming is failing?[/b] A storm [i]so[/i] [b]perfect[/b], it's [i]almost[/i] as if it was [b]contrived[/b]....

We are literally more powerful than we ever were in D1.

Agreed. Bungie is slowly falling into the same trap that nearly destroyed The Division franchise in its first year in 2016….then hobbled the second game as well: Devs with an overinvested ego and need to make the game “difficult.” It got so bad that the game broke down and became unplayable to any who wasn’t playing a perfectly min-maxed build…even the progression system broke down. Because you had to have higher level gear to clear content than the content dropped as rewards. It reached a breaking point when a poster and one of Ubisofts CMs got into it one day online. The CM lost it, and starting lecture all of us about how central all this was to the devs “design philosophy”. I just shook my head. One, because I think the CM ended up getting fired over that outburst. Two. If you are having to lecture your players about “design philosophy” you have lost the point and are losing the argument…badly. Three. It is insulting to your customers to assume that the main reason why they aren’t enjoying your game is because they don’t UNDERSTAND it…. No. Playing a loot game and being WEAK is not enjoyable. It is not enjoyable to have to pour 2-3 MAGAZINES of ammo into a mob to get it to die, while it can two-tap you from halfway across the play space either a shotgun. It’s not fun to play a game so badly tuned that you routinely run out of ammo and can’t find any more where you are….so you have to quit it….and the game drops lower level gear than you have to equip to clear the content. While Bungie isn’t messing up that badly, they are making mistakes that are only different in degree but not in kind. They are so focused on making the game more “difficult” for a vocal minority who do not have the game’s best interests in mind….that they are making the game less playable and less enjoyable for the average player….who pays the game’s bills. So they are putting down their controllers and leaving. Another issue is poor Quality Control. My God the game has never been this bad in terms of bugs, soft locking, unstable servers. I played vanilla Cyberpunk 2077 on Google Stadia and had a better experience playing THAT game from a QC perspective than I’m having with D2 right now. I had to quit a run of The Nether story mission because I couldn’t complete an objective because an enemy got stuck inside a wall. Had to quit an earlier run because a group of enemies wouldn’t spawn in. I couldnt complete the Fikrul last fight (Epidode 2) because of soft-locking after the first damage phase. The bugs have escalated to the game-breaking point…. Can’t have fun playing if you can’t get through the content….

Old engine it's not as simple of oh let's improve Ai and that won't save the game. Bad RnG system Bad progression system ie power Overly saturated look pool Not enough engaging activitys Just to name a few. Bungie don't update older content enough which hurts the game dares of eternity could have been fun with updates every episode as a way of chasing red boarders you cant get anymore. Gambit has potential for different game types but bungie abandoned it. The game struggles to find identity or it's demographic the devs wanted harder the community didn't. At this point the franchise needs a new studio a new team and a hard reset with a proper plan behind it. Hopefully Sony give the ip to a different studio instead of abandoning it.

You'll have many different opinions on what makes destiny good/bad and this probably comes down to when any given player started playing the game. In my opinion, destiny being a live service wasn't the right move in the end and although there are benefits with timed events, it's ultimately led to stretched out content, defined/shifting metas etc... instead of balance and flexibility. I honestly think there's been enough content to produce 3 full games and the series could have finished 4 years ago. I think we would have had 3 absolute bangers as well... just my opinion though, we'll never truly know!

The current "developers" are just not familiar with Destiny. Most of the current devs most likely were born when Destiny 1 released. Bungie made the big mistake to shift away all their talent towards other projects and hired a bunch of junior devs to keep destiny barely alive. You can feel the lost passion in the dev team everywhere. They simply dont play their own game and/or are a completely different generation that has zero passion for the product. The collect their feedback from a toxic elitist minority of players.

Solution: New player base.

I tried Destiny 2 for about 3 hours before feeling like I was going to fall asleep. This game is painfully boring

Ah yes. The player who has no Titles and barely done any Raids or Dungeons is going to save the game.