Luna and NF got a balance change because it broke PvP. None of those weapons after comes close to breaking PvP. Luna+NF has a .67 TTK which is faster than just about every weapon in game bar a few very specific exotics(TLW/Fully ramped up Suros Regime). With the change it's getting .80 TTK from what I can tell is faster than every legendary in game still with the only exceptions being rampage or kill clip and those two requires a very specific grouping of players.

It’s pretty much only the crucible pinnacle weapons that are going to get nerfed. The other stuff range from mediocre to good in pvp.

No. The others will follow. That's just the way it is. Rather than fix glaring issues, Bungie takes the easy way out and sweeps it under the rug. If they eliminate bloom for ALL handcannon archetypes and not just the 180, you'll see the Luna/NF argument is silly. They're already easily outmatched by other 180 archetype cannons. This is due to their ability to roll High Caliber rounds and perks to match their range and time to kill values. Everyone says Luna/NF is OP, but my Sunfall 7 begs to differ. It's carried me to far more victories than Luna ever has and ever will. Luna/NF are just popular because they are trophy weapons. And rightfully so. If I grinded my ass off, I wanna show it off too. And I do occasionally. But Sunfall will always be the best readily available handcannon in Crucible simply because it can combat what Luna/NF relies on most: crit shot aim.

The breakneck, the delirium or the redrix will not be nerfed because they are not good enough to compete with the stronger weapons like the bygones or the trust. Don’t try, they will not be. Next, the luna was nerfed because it outperformed every primary gun in the game. You can say that other stuff are "just as good" but you would be wrong. Statistics prove this. Finally, maybe that’s not how I would have nerfed it, but it needed a nerf. No denying that.

That statistics are skewed because you're not seeing the overall issue. Look at PC, Luna/NF are a non-issue. And that's because of the absence of the bloom mechanic. I don't know if you know what bloom is, but it's basically an RNG mechanic added to handcannons to narrow the "skill gap." That's where the term "Ghost Bullets" come from. It's a mechanic that has been present since the original Destiny. You can have pinpoint aiming skills but because of bloom, if you fire too fast or if the game just decides it, you "miss" even though the bullet quite clearly hit its mark. ALL handcannons that don't belong to the 180 RPM Precision Archetype suffer from bloom only on console. The archetype Luna/NF belongs to, does not. That archetype includes Sunfall 7, Service Revolver, Trust, Nature of the Beast, and the Ikelos handcannons. All of those weapons do not suffer bloom. Where you aim and pull the trigger, they will hit their mark every time. Even the likes of AoS, Last Word, and Thorn don't have that luxury. They suffer bloom and by extension, Ghost Bullets. The Luna/NF issue is ONLY a console issue because of bloom. Taking away bloom for all other handcannons will fix that problem. You will then see that those guns are easily outclassed not only in stats but also in overall performance. The reason why they're so good is that they only miss if the player misses. Not because the game said they did like is the issue with all the other archetypes. Randomly rolled 180 RPMs and Sunfall can combat Luna/NF by utilizing High Caliber rounds and range perks to destroy their purpose: to reward precision aiming. Can't get taken out by MH if they're not able to aim properly. Surely you see the benefit in using weapons that don't suffer from pure chance? Common sense dictates it in a competitive setting. Nerfing like that will of course make them fall out of favor. But it WILL NOT eliminate the downright dominance 180 RPM handcannons enjoy. With Luna/NF out of the picture, all the 180 RPM handcannons will continue the reign of dominance in their absence. And that's simply because 180 RPM handcannons only miss if the player misses. So get used to seeing Sunfall 7, Service Revolver, and Trust showing up on your kill feed way more often. It's inevitable. Then they'll eventually get nerfed as well. Alongside any other weapon with an outlier performance enhancing perk.

The difference between pc and console is the fact the fact that pc recoil is barely existent. Yes there is bloom on pc, but it’s not that noticeable because they can bring back there sights way faster than someone on console. If bloom was removed on console(I would be very happy), it wouldn’t change that much. Luna and NF can kill quicker and at longer ranges than most other guns in the game. Removing bloom wouldn’t change that, because you would still have to deal with the recoil of handcannons. And now with the nerf, you will still see 180s, but guns that can kill quicker(most other weapons since 180s kill in 1 second) will be able to compete. Already stuff like the halfdan, the rapid fire scout rifles and high impact scout rifles compete very well with 180s.

Handcannons, shotguns, and pulse rifles stay in the top 10 crucible weapons. Even on PC according to every tracking site under the Sun. In a perfect world, all weapons will be able to compete with one another. But as with any game, there are just weapons you steer clear of. Even Call of Duty has weapons you just don't touch and that says something because whoever shoots first wins in that game. Even though certain weapons are mathematically balanced to compete, it doesn't mean they will be dominant simply to due to design mechanics. All we can ultimately do is see how the nerf truly does impact PvP. Personally, I don't see the PvP landscape changing much except for an increased complaint about 180 RPM handcannons. That, and the nerf community's embolden efforts to reign in any weapon that is convenient. We shall see.

Please leave my Breakneck alone. I’m not good enough to get those amazing pvp guns, let me have something. Lol

I wish it were so. But when they're done nerfing the whole 180 rpm archetype, outlier weapons will be dealt with next by the nerf community. Due to Bungie's refusal to fix mechanical issues, they've set future precedent to just nerf everything again. Since Pinnacle Weapons are outliers in their respective archetypes, the nerf herd will come to them for one reason or another. I hate that it's coming to this again, but I highly recommend you don't get attached. Breakneck may last longer than others, but they'll clip it's wings soon enough.

You really think the Breakneck will cause that much of a threat to where people will call for nerfs though? (I feel this is the only time they do major nerfs right? When an overwhelming part of the community calls for it?) I could be wrong. Either way, i sure hope not, this is the first gun that I can’t put down and proud that I grinded for. Also this made me remember D1 when Suros first came out, I never used any other gun and was low key sad when they nerfed it to oblivion. Lol. Only time a game truly made me kind of frustrated.

i don’t think mountaintop, recluse, or delirium will be nerfed, and certainly not redrix

I commend you for having high hopes. I really do. But Bungie's refusal to fix bloom on Handcannons and opting to nerf two DECENT guns doesn't paint a sweet picture. Coming from a Luna owner, there are far better options than Luna assuming you can aim. Even then, if you can't aim, Luna/NF just become average 180 rpm handcannons. They're trophy weapons and for good reason. The whole 180 rpm archetype is a problem Bungie refuses to fix. They're the only ones who don't suffer bloom. Once those nerfs go live, they're gonna be useless. But the other 180 RPM handcannons will still reign as dueling kings. They're just too reliable. You'll see what I mean. It's useless trying to explain anything in these forums. I recommend you try and use a West of Sunfall or a well rolled Trust or Service Revolver. Tell me they don't out Luna/NF in their place. Because they do. I've mained Sunfall in Crucible since I got it. Luna is much better for PvE and QP if I want to show off trophy weapons. Aiming is key in crucible. Those that can't aim see a problem with one gun. Those that can aim see an issue with a whole archetype. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's true. Having one archetype that includes like 5 guns without bloom in a sea of other archetypes with bloom makes no sense.

i agree with what you’re saying. i also have luna’s, i think recluse is better than luna’s but other than that it can’t be topped, but mostly i just can’t find them nerfing redrix, (especially redrix,) recluse, mountaintop, or 21% delirium. they all fit pretty well, and i don’t think any of them are overpowered.

They won’t nerf Redrix. It’s not very good in it’s current state anyway

You’d be surprised of what it can do with perk on that is, out of all the pvp pinnacle weapons, redix is the one with the most kills for me

Stop defending a weapon that's severely lacking. Of course its decent when the perk is active. It shouldn't be just decent. Why don't people get this? It's a pinnacle weapon, it should be amazing. Nothing else. That is the entire point the OP is making about Oxygen. Still they are threads saying, "It's not that bad". You're missing the entire point. If you use destiny tracker, where does Redrix rank?? Not even in the top 20%. That makes it not awesome.