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3/25/2019 11:04:42 PM
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Why do changes take so long?
I'm not trying to be mean. I think it's a very fair question.
D2 developers seem to move at a snail's pace compared to those working on other games.
Balance changes to supers? Months.
New Crucible maps (assuming we're EVER getting them), or even just more maps ported over from D1? We've been waiting at least six months now. Realistically, it's almost certainly gonna be at least nine.
Putting in one new type of bounty as a "solution" to enhancement core scarcity? More than two months (and that's not even counting the time they've already been working on it).
But you know what? If suddenly there was a bug that gave each player ten cores, every hour, on the hour, it would be fixed by day's end.
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Always been this way as I remember. Other studios can make changes rather swiftly....not the Bung.
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5 commentairesTwo reasons. 1. Every rumor out there is saying that the game engine and developer tools (programs that allow you to create things inside the game engine) are obsolete and VERY difficult and time-consuming to work with. So it just takes a LOT of time and effort to get anything done with them. 2. Bungie is a company that has grown EXPLOSIVELY. When Bungie left Microsoft in 2009 it was a small studio of 200 people. Now in 2019, its a company of nearly a thousand people....and had two smaller studios of around 200 people on retainer from Activision. IOW, they started out a small enough company such that most people probably knew each other...at least by name....and most things could probably handled relatively informally. Instead of having to set up a meeting....you just walked over to someone's desk and talked it out for few minutes. But in a company that is a thousand people....lines of communication have to be FORMALIZED. Getting two teams working together can no longer be managed with informal conversations over lunch or at someone's desk. They now take formal meetings and other defined processes. ...and being relatively new at this, Bungie likely didn't have a chance to figure out how to make those processes faster.....or even how to initiate them. One of the biggest recurring problems you hear from Bungie devs whenever something in the program breaks unexpectedly (like a serious bug is found)....one of the first things they always do is try to figure out WHO is responsible for that part of the game....and how to contact them. IOW, Bungie has all the earmarks of a company that has serious internal communication problems....which, imo, is part of why they are so slow to act as an organization.
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Modifié par changy081 : 3/27/2019 1:26:21 AM1, Shit engine 2, slow communication 3, shit engine 4, small team (live team)
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Because the game is on life support. Basically any bug that puts the player at a disadvantage will not be fixed quickly. Fixes take way too long. Even weeks and months. See Ada's weapon frame bugs. Now, if found a bug today that gives me endless enhancement cores, they'd scramble and fix it by tomorrow.
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Modifié par Wheelaa1 : 3/27/2019 1:28:11 AMIn part, because nearly every fix / update / patch intoduces a new set of issues. The amount of 'known issues' with no fix in sight is shocking. Plus fixing stuff for existing purchasers doesn't bring in the bucks, but fixing stuff costs money, as do patches and updates that require MS / PS approval. No coincidence that the major updates happen when a new expansion or season drops.
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1 commentaireIt has a lot to do with the core framework of the Bungie's game engine. Believe it or not, they apparently made changes between D1 and D2, to help reduce the upload times. But it is still not as easy for them, as other big game devs. Plus anything they change, such as game patches and even bug fixes, have to be certified by Sony, Microsoft, and Blizzard, to ensure nothing will clash with the different platforms. Certification takes almost a whole week, most times. As well as their own testing, to try and make sure that changes don't break something else. Changing/adding new code, isn't just a few keystrokes. Game publishing and patching isn't the simple turning off or on something, that many people think it is. It has a lot to do with engine the game is built on. Different engines are easier or more difficult to update. In fact 343 Studios had been using a newer version of Bungie's original Halo engine, up until they recently built the Slipstream engine for Halo Infinite.
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Something to do with their engine taking 8 hours to load up whatever it is that they want to change, that’s a typical working day for most.
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Bug fixes and everything (maintenance) come in a hotfix, All the bigger stuff (balancing, etc) is in patch, the main reason they do this is for unforeseen issues. They would rather put in a hotfix to fix server issues because put in a big patch and server issues could be a problem. Thats why theres a week on content launch to find unseen issues for a hotfix post launch. Thats my thinking
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6 commentairesWhats most likely happened especially now that its released, is that the live team takes over. The whole of bungie is no longer working on it. The larger team has moved on to work on larger releases like the next game or even getting things arranged. The live team is significantly smaller than the larger team that works on destiny. I do think they work to slowly but now that things are better planned I’m sure it will become better in the future.
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2 commentairesconsidering the promise made with D2 and why they had to reboot the game so that changes could be done faster, we seriously have seen very few that are publicized. Sandbox changes are significantly slow.
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Modifié par Xc_LuxZenRa : 3/26/2019 3:18:45 PMpass this to the Dev Team. Let us be very clear! [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251450868?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1]Edited Version: Those that Prefer No Emoji's~Follow Me.[/url] Bungie: 🤭We Hear you! Bungie: 🥳based on your feedback🥳 we will Remove Scrapper Bounties and add Gunsmith Bounties to earn more cores. Community:😐😑 IT WON'T BE ENOUGH! THIS IS NOT A FIX!😤😡🤬 Bungie: 🧐We Hear you!..🖕Ahem: Our hope(Just Leave it alone🧟♂️ Guardians)is that this increased access and control😈over Enhancement Core acquisition will help improve the balance of materials being earned vs. materials being used.🤥🤫 Community:🗣 Bungie, 🗣🗣BUNgie, BUNGIE!!🗣🗣🗣 don't you get it??? [b]“If enhancement cores are removed from infusion, the problem will be ________.” [/b]🙏🙏🙏🤨🤨😡 Bungie: 🙄...infusion won’t be as impactful. 🕴🏼We keep a close eye on the amount of infusion materials being earned versus how many are being used and will continue to make adjustments as needed.” Community: 💩🤮🤯🤯🤯😫🙅♀️🙅♂️😡😤 1)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418699?sort=0&page=0]Wow Even the Forbes Guy Thinks Your TWAB Solution Is Terrible[/url] 2)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418262?sort=0&page=0]It's a game/hobby, not a job.[/url] 3)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251417963?sort=0&page=0]Paul Tassi said it perfectly![/url] 4) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418573?sort=0&page=0]FORBES:[/url] 5)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251463085?sort=0&page=0] Bungie. Listen. To. Your. Community.[/url] 6)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418097?sort=0&page=0]At this point, Bungie is begging us to boycott the game[/url] 7)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251412308?sort=0&page=0]The TWABs (Solution) To Enhancement Cores is Unacceptable[/url] 8)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251422793?sort=0&page=0]Can we get rid of stupid enhancement cores?[/url] 9) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251452307?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1]Play a Game Where The Devs Listen[/url] 10)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251411799?sort=0&page=0]Enahancement core changes show bungie doesn't care about our feedback.[/url] 11)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251428261?sort=0&page=0]The Core Poll[/url] 12) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251414088?sort=0&page=0]#CoresRemoveChoice and a Proposing a Boycott?[/url] 13) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251456236?sort=0&page=0]Why do changes take so long?[/url] 14) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251464650?sort=0&page=0]I'm waiting for Enhancement Cores to show up in bundle packages[/url] 15)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251419308?sort=0&page=0]Let's show bungie they need to remove master cores or change to only one per infushion please up vote![/url] 16)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251410810?sort=0&page=0]#Remove enhancement cores[/url] 17) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251464433?sort=0&page=0]#Remove enhancement cores from infusing[/url] 18)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251436487?sort=0&page=0]#Remove enhancement cores from infusing bungie[/url] 19)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251416524?sort=0&page=0]Remove Infusion Cores simply to gain back some customer goodwill[/url] 20) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251453120?sort=0&page=0]REMOVE. CORES. FROM INFUSION. COSTS.[/url] 21)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418537?sort=0&page=0]You should start listening to your community rather than say your listening[/url] 22)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251411913?sort=0&page=0]THE INVESTMENT TEAM IS TONE DEAF![/url] 23)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251419439?sort=0&page=0]Ditch the cores![/url] 24)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251438928?sort=0&page=0]The Infusion Problem Will Get Worse Each Season[/url] 25)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251416147?sort=0&page=0]The enhancement core bounties are no fix[/url] 26) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251427662?sort=0&page=0]Why replace scrapper bounties when you can have both?[/url] 27) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418315?sort=0&page=0]The amount of ways you get Enhancement Cores is not the problem. It's how wasteful using them for infusion is.[/url] 28)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251411497?sort=0&page=0]Are you happy with the announced changes regarding Enhancement Cores next season?[/url] 29) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251422336?sort=0&page=0]Is Bungie Not Gonna Address 95% Of The Communities Concern?[/url] 30) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251345297?sort=0&page=0]The leveling is still bad[/url] 31)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251436069?sort=0&page=0]Congrats Bungie![/url] 32) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418266?sort=0&page=0]Thank you Bungie Dev Team! I finally made a "meaningful choice"[/url] 33) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251439614?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1]Masterwork cores need to return. #coresremovechoice[/url] 34) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251464519?sort=0&page=0]Last screams of the missing neighbours[/url] 35) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418636?sort=0&page=0]Tired of my characters looking like patch work dolls for the sake of light level[/url] 36)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251412287?sort=0&page=0]Bungie doesn’t respect player time investment[/url] 37) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251461764?sort=0&page=0]Bungie doesn't read any feedbacks written in other languages.[/url] 38)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418128?sort=0&page=0]Bungie out of touch[/url] 39)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251413867?sort=0&page=0]Strengthen Your Core (from a players perspective)[/url] 40)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251441917?sort=0&page=0]A unique perspective on cores and infusing[/url] 41)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251418132?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=0]Letter to Devs -[/url] 42) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251450868?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1]A Message to the Bungie Team! -Click Me-[/url] 43) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251441735?sort=0&page=0]Don’t give up on destiny[/url] 44)[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251463732?sort=0&page=0] Make your case for KEEPING enhancement cores as part of INFUSION.[/url] 45) [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/251434856?sort=0&page=0]Open invitation to any Bungie developers that would like to have a discussion with the forum community on investment and progression[/url] Bungie: 😣😬🤐🤐🤐 Thinking:*😏 We told em in the TWAB the changes won't come until next season😆. that gives us more than enough time to come up with another Non-solution. 😎GG Team...GG.* Bungie: 👮♂️Guardians, guardians...👮♀️Settle Down. 🕴🏼You know Us.🕴🏼 Remember the Good old 🕹Halo Days(We Sure Don't)!? I can 🙄assure you that we are listening(⚙️⚙️⚙️). As always, we’ll be continuously 😴monitoring this item economy, along with your 💩feedback to assess its effectiveness.” [url=https://youtu.be/87pr-fguT8I]Destiny 2 Leveling is Still Bad[/url] [url=https://youtu.be/QXGoaFCtX6I]Destiny 2 Leveling Easy Fix[/url]
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It is a combination of ineptitude and intentional decisions to slow things down even further.
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2 commentairesit took them months to fix trinity ghoul and queenbreaker, so don’t ask me!
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1 commentaireAnother example is RNG tuning for drop related to titles. Not sure how many months we have been and will be waiting even though they announced a change was coming
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1 commentaireEngine and coding is shit. Been shit since 2014.
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9 commentairesModifié par lCertifiedl : 3/26/2019 3:34:29 PMDestiny is pathetic on patches and updates, Anthem for all it's faults nails this part of the game, literally a patch comes today with a load of improvements, it's the 4th one in 4 weeks. We get one big update every what 3-6 months from bungie, it's laughable. I wouldnt mind so much if content drops were full with content and fixes, but they ain't. I'd hazard a guess probably 50 people are working on D2 and the rest are on D3.
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2 commentairesSimply put they do not want to make the changes. They believe that know better and your wrong.they have to face dire financial loses to be motivated to change. Once the threat leaves they revert to their natural selves. See D2 launch forsaken then annual pass as the perfect examples
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2 commentairesLet's not forget that it takes Bungie months to fix broken things that impeded our progress. But pretty much every time there has been a bug that we can exploit for our gain, they shut it down in a matter of days. That's also how D1 worked too. Funny how that works, isn't it?
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3 commentairesBecause these are terrible developers.
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Nothing is truly "broken" unless players can complete it too fast. Everything is meant to slow you down as much as possible
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16 commentairesBecause they wait for Cozmo and DMG to edit and collate the feedback instead of reading it themselves. Unfortunately Bungie has veered towards thinking of itself as a tech company instead of a video game company. Tech companies are horrific terrible horrible things most of the time. Video game company people and tech company people should be totally different types of people.
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2 commentairesModifié par Sweet Lew 88 : 3/26/2019 12:30:34 AMI think part of it is they make decisions and tend to live with them for a while. Bungie is about numbers so they need to take a decent sample size before making decisions. Destiny is very complicated, they admit that their spaghetti code takes lots of testing to make sure things dont break.
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7 commentairesModifié par GrundleBeans : 3/25/2019 11:36:05 PMImagine you're in a kitchen by yourself and you're trying to cook a meal for a dinner party of 12. Probably a lot for one person to manage, right? What most people would do is probably ask for some help. Get at least 1 or 2 other people to help pick up groceries, do some prep work, set the table, etc. But as you try to cater to more and more people who want to come to your dinners and want to all have dinner [i]at the same time[/i], a few helpers isn't going to cut it. So you need MORE help. With more help, comes the need for coordination and assigning tasks. Eventually there's so many people and specific tasks that need to be assigned that you can't do it all yourself, so you get some other people to manage others and assign tasks for you. They've gotta talk to you so you can tell them what you want them to do and what you want them to tell others they're in charge of what to do. Now you've got a [i]company[/i], like Bungie, that has 700 employees working in the "kitchen". Not just 5, or 50, not even 100, but [b]700[/b]. That's a ton of cooks in one kitchen all trying to work together. There's literally not enough time in a day for you to handle every single thing that needs to get done or answered. So what happened was a single person turned into a behemoth corporation of people with many different jobs and responsibilities all trying to work in concert together, which takes a lot more talking and a lot more time to figure out things than you in the kitchen with a handful of helpers only trying to serve a handful of guests. That is how things take longer than you expect with a big company like this. The pursuit of scaling a game and scaling a company is often befell by greater bureaucracy and more complicated production, which in part often leads to specializations and the silo-ing of teams. Also keep in mind MOST other game developers don't make games that last more than 1-2 years steadily on the market and most don't sell past 5 or 10 million. Though there are lots of other variable reasons for that.
