Okay you want a argument then I'll give you one. First of let take a look at the titan class as a whole. Obviously there's three supers. Defender which requires the most skill to use because you can't kill anyone with it so your NightStalker requiring more skills falls as with NightStalker you can get up to three kills if using the right perks also you can suppress supers and enemies. Defender is just a bubble with a sign that says "hey waste your super on me" Striker is only good if you know how to use (which is why a lot of people didn't use the titans in general) The only good grenades it had is shock grenades. First off you had to angle these grenades in order to be effective like the trip mine but without it being a instant kill. Second, if it falls flat on the floor it's completely useless unless some is stupid enough to stand on it. Now there's flash grenades which were pretty useless considering the small blast radius and the other that was complete trash. Melee in general are just horrible on a titan hence why a lot of people refer to the melee as T-Rex arms not like the 360 stab from anywhere hunter melee or the mile away melee from warlocks. The other thing that was OP with striker is of course shoulder charge. Now this is a ohk and requires you to be close to the enemy. Just like bladedancer, shoulder charge could be counter with shotgun or just moving back. Of couse this is a deadly trade off because choosing shoulder charge will put you at a disadvantage because of a perk known as unstoppable. Unstoppable is what makes a titan completely invincible during his super. Otherwise than that you can shotgun him or melee. Trust me I know from experience. Now for the super which is commonly know as the Fist of Panic. This super requires actual skill. Now before you bash of me for saying that, it really does. Its impossible for a titan to get the seventh column before the TTK. Second, get on your titan (if you even have one because you blocked your stats) and try to get two or three kills with it. To get more than one kill with the super requires perfect timing like for example when the enemy is capturing the zone or heavy ammo. Its not a range super unless you have shockwave and it's easily avoidable if you blink. SunBreaker is just honestly OP. Hunters are finally getting a taste of their own medicine. SunBreaker is OP because the whole skill tree is focus on the super. Most of the perks are for the super itself. Titan dont have shoulder charge or a shield granted unless using the sunspot perk that allows you to have a overshield if standing in the sunspot. Nothing is special about it except for the super itself. SunBreaker dont have invade or blink nothing that boost it stats for getting precision kills like gunslinger or having a marker over an enemy and seeing his every movement like NightStalker. Which imo why the SunBreaker will never see a nerf. Gunslinger is a interesting subclass. Now I do agree that the jumps for the hunter is atrocious. BUT the class itself is not horrible. The only good grenades for the hunter is tripmind which is a ohk. Their melee is a knife which could poison a enemy. Give you another knife if the previous one killed the target. Gunslinger has a lot of perks that will improve gameplay. Getting precision kills will grant you buffs and so on. Now the super itself is a ohk unless your shooting a titan. Which is completely balanced considering that the hammer have travel time. Rushing a SunBreaker titan head on is just idiotic in general. You get three shots(4 if using the exotic) and it comes with keyhole which it can go threw enemy targets or combustion which the enemy you just killed explodes and kills people around them. With GG you dont even have to aim. Just point in a general direction and shoot. GG is basically has icarus so you can jump behind cover and kill anyone. Basically if the users is stupid enough to rush the enemy with GG he is asking for trouble. Before TTK it was a ohk so its completely justified for it not to have resistant damage. Bladedancer is just horrible. Back when Destiny was released their was no counter to it until people learned the combos to take it down. The amor was never nerfed, people just had really crappy guns. Low impact shotguns or auto rifles. Skip grenades are horrible. Arc bolts scanned the whole area and hit multiple enemy targets if in ranged. And the last grenades is on the titan striker class which is trash unless, just like the shock grenade, someone was stupid enough to walk in. Bladedancer is probably the one subclass that requires the most skill to use. Imo is should be able to ohk a SunBreaker titan Just because you have to get close to it. Also someone who know how to use Bladedancer could probably wiped out a whole team if they know how to use it. People complained about blink hunter but you need blink to maximize your bladedancer. You said that hunters are the fastest class and its because of this super. Imagine trying to Bladedance with a titan without increase control. Right next to blink you need hungering blade which is like cauterize. Also shockwave is required to get those distant targets that are shooting at you. And encore to increase your bladedancer duration. NightStalker is the second one that requires skill to use. The grenade that acts like a wall is good to get people who turn around coners or just to cut off entry points. The other grenades are from Voidwalker or Defender. With NightStalker you can go invisible or throw a poison bomb to slow your enemies. You also get a perk that lets you see where your target goes to if you damage him first. Also you got another perk called courage of the pack that effects you or your allies. The super can instantly shutdown supers. You can also get three kills with the super if your using the perk that gives you three shadow shots. Also anyone tether is just good as dead because they become a giant critical hit box. Also lastly hunters get a new jump or dash that is already being abused. So three supers that are great in PvP because of the perks that comes with it. Or 1 great OP super with one mediocre and the other one useless. And also everyone agreed back before the TTK titan required the most skill because of their lackluster mediocre (not to mention that one was completely useless) supers. But that all change when SunBreaker came out. Also the people who disagree are hunter elitist or Players who have never even touch titans at all. I have all three classes. Your stats are hidden. I get more credibility because I play with every single class. I beat Oryx on all three characters. I went flawless on my hunter and titan. Trust me I know everything about each class. I know their strength and weaknesses. So when it come to topics like these the only reason why hunters are winning is because they are the most played class. They are easy to use. Before NightStalker, GG didn't take skill at all and bladedancer required skill in order to be good. When the first iron banner came around is was mainly hunters because they were the PvP class. Hunters in the beginning had a great head start before the other classes. Warlocks had Voidwalker and sunsinger both good supers if used correctly and titans.... well they had striker but really that's all they had going for them. Defender is easily the class that requires the [b][u]most[/u][/b] skill just because they are weak. A nova bomb or two GG shot could take it out not to mention the FoH. Now this argument is PvP based. If you're talking that hunters requires the most skill in PvE then I agree. If it seems that I being a little biased then point it out. [spoiler]also I might not respond back as quickly because I either writing a rebuttal. Also me posting this just painted a giant bullseye on my back. As a lot of people are going to attack me and prove me wrong. So I might get a headache. [/spoiler]

If you've paid attention to my entire posts, my argument is both PvP and PvE based. And because I have already been through some of these points with another which you can read elsewhere in the responses to my OP, I'm just going to address a few things. Defender may not be incredibly effective in terms of killing power, but the only thing you need to do with Defender is determine where to place the bubble. Yes, this requires thought, but once you place it the bubble does the rest for you by protecting you from all directions. I will agree that it takes skill to perform well with this class in PvP. However, this subclass has been #1 in PvE since day one. And this is ultimately why the Titan class doesn't get a pass. It currently has the best PvP and PvE super, and both are simple to use. Shadowshot does not instantly shut down supers upon use, it requires you to predict their movement so that you can place an anchor within range before they kill you. Shooting someone directly in their super just results in a bit of damage and 1) an anchor that will only suppress them after they kill you, or 2) no anchor at all, which may be a bug but it happens. Of the three new subclass this one absolutely requires the most skill. Sunbreaker and Stormcaller both get better grenades, and better supers for kills. That said, I don't have an issue with Nightstalker and I absolutely love everything about the subclass, but it's definitely far less auto-pilot than the others. At least we both agree bout Bladedancer. This was my main class pre-TTK. I don't care that Sunbreaker has a powerful super, but I do care that they have nerfed the class in so many ways (Arcbolt, Flux, Blink, Invis) but turned around and created two new subclasses with supers that are essentially beefed up versions of Arc Blade. Storm grenade is basically Arcbolt on crack as well. Of all roaming supers right now, Arc Blade is definitely the most difficult to use. As far as "Hunters getting a taste of their own medicine" well that's shitty reasoning for a lack of balance. By your logic, Defender should be nerfed because it ruled PvE for the entirety of year one and it should be the Hunter's chance to be the best PvE subclass because they were considered the worst. But that logic is stupid, and does not deserve credibility. Hammer of Sol will be nerfed. Who knows how long it will take because Bungie is slow, but it will happen. Speaking of credibility, the only thing that matters is whether my argument is logical, whether what I'm saying makes sense. That aside, read further down and see that someone has already inquired about my stats and I made my profile public temporarily for him. I play all three classes and I actually like them all for different reasons. Hunters just require more skill.

At the end of the day they're both opinions. At this point i will stop trying to convinced you that hunters take absolutely no skill in PvP but in PvE they do. Go ahead and have the last word but at the end, no matter how many paragraphs we throw at each other. We will not be able to change each other mind.

Was gonna start getting annoyed at you as you were only talking about PvP, but was happy to see that last paragraph. IMO hunters are easy to use in pvp, but Titans aren't really hard either. But in pve Hunter takes the skillcap cake hands down

I would have added the whole hunter requires more skill in PvE but that would drive me to the brink of insanity.

Wall of text. TDLR; the titan bubble can't kill anyone, striker is pretty much useless in pve. Rest I didn't read. Probably something about the sunbreaker hammer arc or something.

Uhhhhhhhhh

The funniest thing is that he is serious.

What's funny is how upset you get that I'm right, but because I'm right the only thing you can do is make a drive-by comment

Sure Jan

Mashing a trigger button takes effort? Hmmm, I never knew that.

You don't know a lot of things, I assume.

Lol just keep trying to defend that Hunter supers take skill...

Just keep making sarcastic comments without addressing the point I made that the Hunter's roaming supers require more skill than the Warlock and Titan roamers. Do you have anything to say about that or nah? Because I can keep waiting. See my comments to another below if you want a more in-depth explanation, then come back when you think you have an argument.

I already made my point. All Bladedancer requires in a single button over and over. Golden gun is a point-and-kills. At least for sunbreaker you have to account for radius and drop.

And your point is wrong. You can try mashing a button if you want but most players have learned to contend with Arc Blade by now. You will get shot and die, unless you think you have somehow discovered a secret that others haven't. Hammer has more damage reduction and a ranged AoE one-shot, so you have no argument in that regard. It is, without a doubt, much easier to throw projectiles (which are not slow, as some try to say) and make them land near people. You can easily kill multiples from a distance. It is far more difficult to rush a group that knows how to aim their guns with Arc Blade, especially if they're using shotguns. You must make extensive use of Blink and air travel to even have a chance, and that alone requires far more effort than Hammer. +1 Hunter skill