The only real weapon I was thinking about using was silimars wrath. The Nerf, in my opinion hit the rifle too hard. I wouldn't even suggest using it to scratch your own back now. Going from 68 damage on a tier one enemy with a body shot, to now 43 damage a freaking body shot. Meaning... there was a 25 point damage drop. That is a little extreme for a 2.5% freaking Nerf... Btw, Timor's lash head shot does 96 damage. Gheleon's demise, last time I checked did 64-68 damage. Felwinter's lies does considerable damage, but they are not quite up to par to the fire rates of their counter parts. In Destiny the perfect balance is equal amounts of damage and fire speed. Fire too slow and you get destroyed at close quarters by the faster cousin. But the also is true for fire rate. If your shots do not do enough damage then they cannot compete at higher ranges, then you are limited in the opposite fashion. Meaning that you need to adjust and counter the enemy's weapons appropriately.

Have Lash, Gheleon's, Felwinter, Radegast and Silmar. Everyone's covered the performances so I'll just say that in terms of looks they are some of the best weapons in game. Hoping to complete the set on that basis alone.

A couple Timur Lashes and a Jolder's Hammer. Both hit like a truck, But The Hammer seems better Suited for Both PvP and PvE. It handles similar to Thunderlord. They haven't released a Tier 2 Hammer yet, but When they Do, That'll be one to add to the collection.

I had a demise and used it until Crota's end. It was more like a sniper rifle with it amazing range and impact. In close quarters I preferred some with higher rate of fire.

I love control because I always know where to find the enemy and they have a tendency to cluster so I can nova bomb and get some space magic. Timurs lash is pretty cool I have one with feeding frenzy and hip fire. I like to hip fire at close range but its not a very useful perk. That impact tho. 1935 on headshots. its pretty powerful. The Silmars wrath is so bad its not worth getting. From what I hear the demise has the fire rate of a bager ccl but hits like a truck. Efrdeets spear is godly my friend has one. Felwinters lie is a monster and I would recommend it just based on those stats.

db.planetdestiny.com has a really good list of the available perks for ALL of the Iron Banner Weapons... just search by name or weapon type.

I have everything except the AR. All are good in PvE/PvP with the right perks. Timurs Lash is a good HC all around but more suited for PvE (imo) since the RoF is on the low end. It does work in crucible you just better pay attention to who you are shooting because a skilled HC user will pick you off quickly with TLW, Thorn, Hawkmoon or the higher RoF HCs. Gheleons Demise is basically the A.1 scout rifle that the vanguard quartermaster sold prior to the DLC or current Badger CCL. It's part of the highest damage per shot SRs and is a 3 headshot kill in crucible. Peruns Fire w/accelerated coils is basically a instant fire fusion rifle with average stability/range but you can reroll the perks for send it/perfect balance and it becomes a borderline broken fusion in crucible. I prefer the high Impact fusions for PvE but PF is decent in PvE. Felwinters Lie is op with the right perks but somewhat risky to use if you miss you're dead, if you're playing a laggy opponent most likely you should swap shotguns. Efrideets Spear with certain perks breaks the gun final round can cause the other 2 bullets one shot on a body shot occasionally. Radegast Fury it's a launcher it blows things up has max blast radius and good velocity unfortunately you need to reroll for field scout since it carries one in the tube, but you customize it to suit PvE or PvP. Jolders Hammer has the highest impact of machine guns next to AAO It's definitely a top 3 MG. Against All Odds is more or less a clone of the weapon (impact wise).

Depends on the gun. I'll go over them and even list some of the the better options for PVP, or close easy to find matches if they are best in class. Timurs last isnt' anything special. It's far and away the highest impact of any hand cannon on the stat bar, but in crucible literaly only does a couple points more damage than the damage tier right below it, like fatebringer. However, it's shot speed is noticeably slower, but it kills in the same number of shots.. It SHOULD be a 2 shot kill weapon, even then it would be weaker than say thorn since thorn can do that too, but Thorn has top tier firing speed. However it's not. In PVE, the impact scales normally and it does pretty good, I have 3 of them with PVE rolls for this reason Outlaw, LITC/CC, and field scout :D If you want a good crucible handcannon, I suggest Thorn or the TLW based on playstyle, word of crota is also very snappy to aim with that shoots fast, I like it as well. Silimars wrath is basically Atheons Epilogue with better perks, not exactly a guardian slaying machine.. Just a meh gun, IMO. If this is killing you, git gud scrub :P Mythoclast, For the People, Vanquisher, just look for anything with a slower fire rate and higher impact to get a better auto rifle. It gets better from there though. Gheleon's Demise is again slower shooting, but has the real damage to make up for it, but scouts in crucible generally aren't top tier regardless. Nothing special, if it's causing you problems it's the player or your not using the best non IB guns. For scouts I like having a 3rd eye perk since your looking at guys far away, it's nice to see things close up. Other than that, perfect balance is nice just to keep the cursor very stable at distance. VOC is full auto and has stability, I like the faster firing slightly lower damage more anyways, so it's a good choice. Another NITC is similar, with no full auto, but it has firefly, which isn't great, but it isn't bad either. The secondaries and heavies are where shit get's good, real good. Efrideets Spear is one of those best in class guns. We all know about the final round perk, it's insta-kill even to the body. Combine that with Armor Piercing and Spray and Play and you have a stupid OP weapon. Fire off 2 shots, get a 1 shot kill and reload in .0001 seconds due to Spray and Play. You can also roll for unflinching, I like that perk since it makes you much less likely to miss while being shot at. If you want to match that sniper, your best bet is the Gozen C. It's the same impact, just have to find one with the final round perk. It's a green, but there is one in one of the early moon mission if you make a new toon. Just pay attention to engrams as well. Felwinters Lie is the IB shotgun. It is another best in class weapon. Best tip I can give you if you know someone has this is STAY AWAY. If they have best in class rolls, stay FAR AWAY.. :D Anyways shot package to tighten the spread, Luck in the Chamber for random bonus damage and send it to completely max the range. I have one like that and another with rangefinder, not as good of a perk, but since it also has kneepads, I kept it. Shotgun slides can be devastating when done properly. It's Blue equivlanet is the Bronzed Chasma Esc, same stats, just look for shot package and have 95% of the power of the gun for normal crucible. Really any high impact high range shotty with shot package can be devastating, I used to use a Blue with Judgement VI's stats, the Sidewinder MK.53. With shot package and hammerforged, it was quite overpowered. Peruns Fire is the Fusion rifle. After the nerf you won't see it as much. Accelerated coils what people want here. Quick charge times and high stability are usually the goal. After this patch more range might help as well. I don't use fusion rifles much, if you can give up the exotic slot plan C is REALLY well balanced and fires quickly, if not light of the abyss is an easy one to get a hold of that feels nice. Radegasts Fury is the Rocket launcher.. Clown Cartidge allows you to reload and get free rockets, that's always nice, especially if combined with surplus or field scout. Other than that some like Grenades and Horshoes, others like tracking.. All good mods, just take your pic. There are lots of good rockets in this game, just find one with some of those perks and rock it, no pun intended. Anyways I like Truth, I switch to exotic heavy/legendary primary on my death screen whenever I die about 30 seconds to a minute before heavy is out. Switch back next time i die once I'm out. That way I'm always using best in class, truth is sickeningly good when used properly. Jolders Hammer is the Heavy Machine gun. It's a best in class, with the right perks it kills in only a few bullets, even at longer ranges, very strong. Crowd control allows for very fast double kills, for barrels I like Agressive ballistics. If you can get Field scout or surplus, all the better, if not anything that helps range or stability is good. Again, guns like this are why I use truth, the worst I can do it tie :D If you want a machine gun to straight match a well rolled Jolders good luck. Thunderlord is in it's league, if you use my exotic swap trick that's viable, if not the dead orbit vendor machine gun Deviant Gravity A is worth 1.5 weeks of marks. Some like the crucible vendor Against All Odds, I haven't been much of a fan. Anyways hopefully that allows you to counter it the IB guns for the most part.

Felwinters lie -blam!-s anything in pve or pvp

FELWINTERS LIE IS #1

Some are great, some are average. Tends to depend on the perks for the most part but they are all decent overall. That said, you arent missing out on anything game breaking. I would take my multi tool or vision over the scout, my one way ticket over the fury, any exotic hand cannon over timurs lash, and any high impact sniper can keep up with the spear... The rolling does make it easier to get nice perks though. Felwinter seems to be the standout, but with some intelligence and a quick finger a found verdict has no problem keeping pace.

all of them are beautiful for everything with the right re-rolls.

Gheleons Demise has insane range and impact. 73 crits all day. I can take out snipers with this thing in PVP. PVE is solid, I have outlaw and firefly. ROF is a little low but it more than makes up for it. Felwinter's lie is amazing, and so it should be. People are whinging about it already but that's just because they don't have it and are butthurt their invective and found verdict are getting stomped on.

Fair winter lie is amazing in pve can one shot a cabal with a shield and majors are 2 shots

The machine gun is pretty decent. I don't know why people contain about the stability. I used mine like a an oversized short range scout rifle. Easy machine gun headshot bounties.

Only ever got the heavy machine gun. Crazy impact but horrible range and stability. When IB came back and I saw reforging would not increase it's maxed DMG, I destroyed it. Much better HMG's from vendors

Ghelon's when maxed at 331 does about 1220 on red mob crits in this Weekly (I used the Timepiece for the Nightfall). Something over 500 on majors, forgot the exact number. The firefly perk that came on the default roll wrecks face on the swarms of trash. It's still good on bosses, but there are better options.

Timurs lash=2 shot if you can aim it Felwinter= Cheating..seriously one shots gaurdians 20ft away Gheleons= Best scout rifle imo

I have: Gheleon - hammer forged so max range with firefly and outlaw. Basically an icebreaker with more ammo (translation- awesome) contender for my new favourite gun Timurs lash - massive impact but kicks like a mule. Haven't used it much as I'm still levelling it up but with explosive rounds it's gonna b a lot of fun. :) Felwinter: again haven't used much other than a mess about but will b interesting once I get shot package unlocked (so far it basically one shots everything even without that) That was the drops from this IB and this was the first one I played - I enjoyed it and bought the boots as well for a different look with my hunter :)

I have all the weapons except for jolders hammer and the pulse rifle that isn't available yet. These weapons are absolute monsters, I use them almost exclusively in both pve and pvp. My hunter has all the armor too. Hopefully they have the chest piece at 36 light next time, I'll be 32 without ever doing a raid.

I have timurs lash efrideets spear and fekwinters lie they are all beast as hell but it depends soley on the rolls