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Edited by coffeerox: 12/11/2014 7:14:07 AM
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This article is nowhere NEAR spot on. #1 - "This is an MMO" argument ad nauseum Destiny is NOT an MMO. How many times do we have to repeat this? IT IS NOT AN MMO! Stop trying to pin expectations of MMO-like content on game that's NOT AN MMO! #2 - Expectations of new areas This guy fails to realize how the game is designed. The primary force in the game is gear and therefore there's multiple ways to get that. No matter how many planets they add to the game, it's pointless if it doesn't drive the primary force. You all have to accept that the endgame has, and always will be, raiding and PvP. They're not going to add planets for new single player story missions and bounties. When they release a new planet, they'll have to create a brand new story branch, new open world, bounties, PVP map styled after the new world, endgame raid to tie up all loose ends of the story in that world and finally, items to go along all of this. #4 - True "expansions" Again with the MMO. With an MMO expansion, you're paying 50 dollars and generally what you get with that 50 bucks are new quests, zones, raids, etc. Keep in mind though, that 50 bucks isn't all you'll be paying. You're also paying 14.99 a month to play it, therefore the size and scope of MMO expansions are simply not possible on a console title that's NOT AN MMO. The author mentioned Diablo in that same paragraph. Diablo 3 is most similar when compared to Destiny (Diablo is a true Action RPG while Destiny's major concept points heavily borrow from Action RPG's). In Diablo 3's expansion, Reaper of Souls, you only get one act, Act 5, which can be cleared in under an hour. The real gameplay time, and meat of the game, comes from the items and the item grind. SOUND FAMILIAR? The only difference is, Destiny revolves around co-op to earn those items as opposed to Diablo 3 where co-op is optional (but favorable). How much did this "expansion" cost? 40 dollars. Highway robbery for 1 new act, some modes and slew of items. Bungie gave you MORE for 20. #5 - Story Actually, all said and done, the story was well put together (more well put together than the original game). I love how Dark Below creates a creepy almost terrifying atmosphere that comes with going into a place that dark with the kind of monsters that inhabit it. That said, the story itself is NOT JUST the single player stuff. The raid is the centerpiece of it all. All of this complaining about not enough content and waste of money stems from the fact that you're not Level 30 and you're not doing the raid. In reality, if you did the raid, the story for the Dark Below comes together quite nicely. If you want to bring the MMO parallel back (cause apparently people only want to use MMO as a talking point when it suits their narrative), you've always had to clear the raid in order to finish the story line that was started outside the raid (such as Black Temple with Illidan). #6 - Value if you remove expectations, such as wanting MMO-type levels of content, the value in what you get with 20 dollars is actually pretty good. The game time you'll get out of any activity justifies the cost alone. If you're a single player, you're going to be upgrading all your gear to level 31 and do all the strikes, story missions and bounties. If you're a PVP'er, you'll PVP for packages and marks to update your gear. If you're a raider, you'll do the same stuff as single player but progress in the raid on top of that to attempt to get the best items in the game. Whatever activity you choose,you're going to be spending a lot of time with the game. Leave MMO expectations for MMO. You're not paying 50 bucks + 14.99/mo for the game, so don't expect bells and whistles to come with spending 20 bucks worth of content. For what you get with that 20 bucks, it's actually a really good value.
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  • Definitely not an MMO, has some elements but barely qualifies as one. What it is is a first person shooter

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  • Huh... another idiot saying its not an mmo... get it through your head- it is. No question about it

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  • Learn what the definition of an MMO is (do some research, google works wonders) before you call me an idiot and make a false conclusion.

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  • Mass multiplayer online role playing game? I think destiny has all of those things.

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  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting [b]large numbers[/b] of players simultaneously. MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a [b]large scale[/b], and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. So what does large scale mean? let's look at an MMOFPS, Planetside 2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlanetSide_2 As in the previous game, it features territory control in an open-world, large battles [b][u]featuring up to 2000 players per continent[/u][/b] on foot or in land/air vehicles. Destiny features a maximum of 16 players per world. That's nowhere near massive. That's not even including all the other things that MMORPG's feature compared to Destiny.

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  • We're not talking about gimmicks or features here, and the amount of players defined as "massive" is subjective. Comparing it to larger PC MMOs is nonconsequential and and unproductive. It's an mmo. Stop kidding yourself. It just doesn't have to be a mirror of traditional MMOs to fall in the category.

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  • Wtf are you talking about? You're saying it's an MMORPG, now you're saying you can't compare it to MMORPGS which are naturally on PC. If you want to make that claim, that's what you compare it to. Your argument gets worse if I introduce Final Fantasy XIV which is also a console MMORPG. Face it. Your definition of MMO is incorrect and placing Destiny into the category of an MMO is incorrect. You will get proven wrong at every turn. You're already backpedaling as it is, cause your initial post said MMORPG and there's not very many MMORPG's on consoles in the first place, so therefore you were opening it up for comparison between PC MMORPG's. So now we're doing console MMO's, and certain games prove you wrong there too.

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  • If you role play a character online in a game with friends, you are playing a mass multiplayer online role playing game. Depending on you're definition of mass, this could include many games. Unless of course you have a number of continuous players that is the tipping point to mmo. I'm sorry that the wow/diablo/ff stereotype has ruined you as well.

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  • Not false at all. Its an mmo.

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  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting [b]large numbers[/b] of players simultaneously. MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a [b]large scale[/b], and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. So what does large scale mean? let's look at an MMOFPS, Planetside 2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlanetSide_2 As in the previous game, it features territory control in an open-world, large battles [b][u]featuring up to 2000 players per continent[/u][/b] on foot or in land/air vehicles. Destiny features a maximum of 16 players per world. That's nowhere near massive. That's not even including all the other things that MMORPG's feature compared to Destiny.

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  • Bottom line Destiny does not have enough content. Throw away the fact that if you watch the Devs you'll see that they promised a much, much more expansive game and also ignore the posts by people who worked on the game explaining things like all factions were supposed to have their own stories and missions and still there is not nearly enough content for a game that already cost those of us who bought the season pass $100. They could easily fix this by adding some of the mission bosses in to the raid rotation, adding some more missions to flesh out the story (they could do this using existing worlds), and as you said it's about the gear so add some different versions of existing guns/armor. How bout an Ice breaker type gun with void damage. Shit like that. While destiny is extremely fun it lacks in staying power and becomes all about an endless grind with no benefit. Also there Raid progression is broken. Vault gear is not even close to as good as new vendor gear (with a couple exceptions) so you spend a bunch of time getting gear thinking it will be good for the next raids/content and instead it's basically useless. MMO or not Destiny could be a 10 instead of a 6 or 7 if Bungie would put a little work into making it have more replay value. I do think they did a good job of adding a compelling story to the expansion/raid but they need to vary the strikes and fix the raid progression. I personally would be happy if they would just fix the "random"" strike thing where most the time you get archon priest, summoning pits or good ole spety prime. As I stated earlier if they would expand the content by using things already there like the queens missions and some of the regular bosses as strikes, along with maybe a few unlockable missions to flesh out the back story of the factions so you have a reason why you should pick one over the other, they would have an excellent game rather than a really fun game that turns into mindless, not fun, grindy game really quick. Oh, and just so you know My level 30 Titan has completed both raids and although they were extremely fun they also get boring pretty quick after a few time through.

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  • I do agree that Destiny does not have enough content. That's something we can all agree on. I'm sort of in the middle when it comes to raid progression. The progression of item level goes in correct order, however due to the condensed progression (when compared to traditional MMO gear) we lose the value of our previous gear much quicker than normal. In other games, there's actually a big gap between previous content, and new content, where we equip new (lower tier but better stats) gear but then we eventually reach the end, get preparation gear (end-game small dungeons) to prepare for endgame dungeons (raids/raid gear). That doesn't exist in this game because we don't actually have the content to base the items around. Instead, they based the items around the new raid and therefore we have basic progression to go from preparation gear (vendor) to raid gear right off the bat. The system works but it made us feel that our hard earned items were worthless in the end.

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  • I stopped reading at #4 when you mentioned the diablo 3 expansion was having less content than TDB. That's just outrageous

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  • only read like #2 or 3 and must say if they make [b]ONE[/b] planet to tie up all the loose ends of the story that planet will hav to b HUGE, also they kinda need to add something, maybe not another planet but maybe big areas on earth, like maybe on the other side of earth... its not like the cosmodrome is the entire planet

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  • Since you say it isn't a MMO, where is the freaking story, that 99% of non mmo games have?

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  • That was a really well written pile of garbage.... The fobes peace just summed up all the fourm rage in a neat and easy read form 😆

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  • Oh, thank god, as it's not an MMO we can throw all critics overboard and be happy with our fantastic, epic, flawless "shared world first person shooter". </sarcasm> Pointing out, that Destiny is no MMO is not solving the substantial problems its having!

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  • Pointing out that it's NOT an MMO takes steps towards solving the substantial problems. By identifying that it's not an MMO, we can stop having expectations for purchasing a comparable MMO experience and instead expect designs towards other genres like FPS and Action RPG's that fit better with what Destiny IS, rather than what Destiny ISN'T. You're a regular consumer. You're not gonna know game design. I don't fault you for not knowing, I just ask that you open your mind and start looking at the broader picture.

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  • Since I am a computer and media scientiest, who worked as software developer for several years, is a published author in the field of scientific and fictional novels and has a personal 30 year long history in video gaming, I consider myself a little bit more than a regular consumer. :-P Even if you don't measure Destiny in the MMO context, the main flaws I see are: - No substantial story progress and lack of immersion with the character. The "expansion" changed nothing here. Summed up, the story so far: This is evil, kill it! And that's the quest every single time. - A lot of time sink implementation in the mechanics (Factions, currencies, rare currencies etc.) - Repetitive content to grind the stuff, that is needed to fill the requirements of point two (faction progress, earning needed currencies) all embeded in a somehow consistent work without any character development. I like playing the game and I love the PvP part - don't judge me by my K/D please! - but Destiny smells of expanding low content and making most profit with minimum possible efforts at all ends. - Repetitive mob design, they're just smaller or bigger or textured different. How many mobs do you count? 30? All that is far away from "epic", although it's fun and I'm with you in your point, you must not compare it to WoW and such, because it can't stand such a comparision. Hey, I played it for 240 h or something now... it can't be that bad. :-)

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  • love all your points, agree with all of them

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  • This is spot on. Well said.

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  • Edited by db0ssman: 12/11/2014 3:26:15 PM
    I see your point in everything, except I'd have to disagree with what you're saying about the story. There really is no plot in the traditional sense of the word (IE: complex characters with clear (or possibly murky) motivations acting in a world larger then them to push a story forward), there is more like a very loose set of reasons to go from set piece to set piece and kill things. No characters to speak of. No real motivations besides 'world is going to end, really take my word for it''. No background information on anything that is happening. In some ways it's better, because then you don't have to sit through the long loading screens each time you do a mission for the 100th time but it really does lower that initial playthrough's value. I also think that you missed one of the central premises of his argument that Destiny is a game trying to straddle genre lines and they are coming up short on all fronts. That is why he spent so long talking about MMO's, because he was saying that Destiny is still trying to be MMO-like but if you compare it to actual MMO's the amount of content is way lacking. He also mentions and talks about how we shouldn't expect MMO-like expansions with Destiny's current payment structures, for most of the reasons you mentioned. I do agree with his final conclusion though, unless bungie finds a way to expand the game (even if it means changing the current pricing model), most people will stop playing. It's a game with a funny paradox, there is both way too much to do each week (3x weekly heroic, 3x nightfall, 3x Normal Vog, 3x Hard Vog, 3x Normal Crota's end, 300+ daily bounties, 21 daily missions.) and not enough content, because week to week, you are only doing one of a handful of strikes or missions or running the dailies in the same areas. Each expansion that comes out that only adds a little bit of new content is going to exacerbate the problem.

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  • When I talked about story, I SPECIFICALLY referred to Dark Below, not Destiny as a whole. People keep bringing this up and NOT READING what I put up there. I didn't miss his central argument at all. I resolved every single part of it, not my fault you didn't understand.

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  • You started off by saying "This article is nowhere NEAR spot on." and then precede to rehash a lot of his points but in your own words ( I mean you argue the same points he does, not that you talk about his points to counter them). Sorry If I misunderstood your intent. I too was talking about the dark bellow when I was talking about story. I don't mention destiny as a whole until I talked about this idea of Destiny being an MMO. There is a very bad habit in this community of people being very hyper-defensive with those that disagree with them and start to throw out 'You can't read".

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  • Come on dude. Everyone has seen every nook and cranny this game has. It needs new playable areas... alot of them. Seeing the same shit is boring. I thought borderlands was bad but destiny looks like a cum stain on my bedsheets compared to borderlands. Let alone GTA

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