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Edited by MR E0S:
8/26/2014 2:10:35 PM
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All those of you opposed to MM for raids.
You are missing something.
There's only 1 reason why people like me want it.
I don't want to limit myself to playing with the same small handful of players every time I log into a game.
That kills a game quicker for me than anything else out there, when it comes to multiplayer.
I need to be able to play against lots of different people. That is where I get my variety from.
You are trying to take away my variety.
You are being selfish.
And the only reason you are being selfish and trying to deny me of my variety is based on the fact that you personally would not want to play with randoms. And you automatically assume, with no hard facts to back up your claims... that it somehow leads to content being nerfed.
I do not play internet games to limit myself to playing with only 6 out Millions of players possible out there.
I did not play Customs games on Halo, for this same exact reason.
I gave Bungie the benefit of the doubt when it came to Halo.
But now, Destiny has shown me that Bungie is just -blam!-ed up in their core ideas of how to handle an internet community.
I want the RAW experience of playing with people over the internet.
I do not want you trying to control how I interact with other people on the internet.
I can handle being trolled, quit on, lousy teammates, etc.
I cannot and will not subject myself to the bore that is playing with the same people day after day after day after day.
We might as well be stuck to playing on LANS for what it's worth and how much you people are trying to limit us.
I mean, if you can't handle an internet Random. WTF ARE YOU PLAYING GAMES OVER THE INTERNET?
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[quote]]All those of you opposed to MM for raids. You are missing something. There's only 1 reason why people like me want it. I don't want to limit myself to playing with the same small handful of players every time I log into a game.[/quote] ****Then dont. Plebty of ways to meet ppl in MM in other modes. [quote] That kills a game quicker for me than anything else out there, when it comes to multiplayer. I need to be able to play against lots of different people. That is where I get my variety from. [/quote] **** ..... Playing against, u always play against randoms in crucible. [quote] You are trying to take away my variety. You are being selfish. And the only reason you are being selfish and trying to deny me of my variety is based on the fact that you personally would not want to play with randoms. And you automatically assume, with no hard facts to back up your claims... that it somehow leads to content being nerfed. I do not play internet games to limit myself to playing with only 6 out Millions of players possible out there.[/quote] ***. Neither do i. I think theres a hundred + on my friends list. All of whom i play with. And theres probably 40-50 clan members also. Who i also play with. Go meet ppl. Im not saying no MM. Im saying [i]NO MATCHMAKING IN RAIDS[/i] [quote] I did not play Customs games on Halo, for this same exact reason. I gave Bungie the benefit of the doubt when it came to Halo. But now, Destiny has shown me that Bungie is just -blam!-ed up in their core ideas of how to handle an internet community. I want the RAW experience of playing with people over the internet. I do not want you trying to control how I interact with other people on the internet. I can handle being trolled, quit on, lousy teammates, etc. I cannot and will not subject myself to the bore that is playing with the same people day after day after day after day. We might as well be stuck to playing on LANS for what it's worth and how much you people are trying to limit us. I mean, if you can't handle an internet Random. WTF ARE YOU PLAYING GAMES OVER THE INTERNET?[/quote] sounds like a troll to me.
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Edited by Ironcastaway: 8/26/2014 2:12:49 PMRaiding isnt for everyone. It takes long hours of teamwork. This can be ruined very quickly by a single player. Look at warcrafts failure of a looking for raid system. It made raiding not feel rewarding. They want their raids to take long hours of hard work. Not everyone will complete them which is fine, this game is revolutionary, there is plenty to do. Just because you arnt raiding in the first few weeks doesnt mean to stop playing. Work together and fine or build a group. If you get bored of the same players, do pvp matchmaking. Itz random.
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Unless the Raid just immediately quits out on you because of that single player... I doubt it. I think your just one of those types who secretly thinks that Raids are actually going to be easy. That...even being a man down... would not change the outcome. The real challenge presented by the raids is in gathering the right group of players together. Just one thing. If the Social aspect of Raids is the biggest Challenge of the raid..... LOL! But that's exactly what it'll be regardless. So... there's that. does PVP Matchmaking allow me to take on a Raid? No it doesn't Which means you are still missing the point. The point is this. You are denying the ability to participate in certain content. In the same way I was denied the ability to play customs games on Halo. Now you are telling me that I'm not allowed to participate in Raids. The point. Selfishness, based on assumptions, Based on you trying to tell me who I'm supposed to play a game with.
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[quote]The real challenge presented by the raids is in gathering the right group of players together.[/quote] I didn't know starting a topic saying "Hey who wants to hit Vault of Glass on xx/xx my ID is xxxx" was so hard.
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Not trying to wind you up here, but isn't that the same thing as Matchmaking? In fact, isn't that worse than Matchmaking? You just opened yourself up to anyone who happens to be available at xx/xx time and day without discovering if they're properly compatible or skilled enough to play with you. And before you say you can easily look at their profile and record and make that determination for yourself, that's already what Matchmaking does, and on so many more levels than you yourself thinks to check. The difference is that you didn't have to be pulled out of the game to do all that checking. Matchmaking did if for you.
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Glad to see you addressed the gear issue. Yes, their matchmaking algorithm would probably look at gear as well as other stats and then makes a decision based on that. However, it still makes that decision for you, without any input from you. Thus, it's decisions on who's a good match for you based purely on gear and stats will never be as accurate as if you had manually done it yourself, which makes not much time at all. In addition, by planning your party in advance you have time to discover whether or not you're actually compatible with your other raid mates. It would be an awful shame if your group had one guy who you just couldn't stand in it and there wasn't anything you could do about it since matchmaking doesn't bother to ask.
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Edited by Ironcastaway: 8/26/2014 2:51:32 PMIve raided in MMOs for almost a decade. Forums, friends, and recruiting are how you plan for a raid. Everyone thinks the raids will be easy, and if there is matchmaking i wouldnt waste my time with the raids. Its the fact that bungie has actually designed a challenge that makes these seem so difficult and hopefully rewarding. But im sick of all these matchmaking posts. It wont happen. If it did it would defeat the point of a raid. Raiding is supposed to be a group working together to accomplish a great feat. How great is it if you group together and someone quits out early. Or kills everyone etc. Moral of the story is that the people who are complaining about no matchmaking will be the same people to bitch that matchmaking isnt good enough either. World of warcraft had heroic only bosses. Some content only 1% or less of the 7million player base saw. Just because people cannot reach or complete some content is not their problem. It is in the game to be attempted. Either get a group together, or dont raid. Easy as that. I have a group and raid nights already planned. Using forums and friends. You can do the same it wasnt hard.
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Edited by MR E0S: 8/26/2014 2:51:16 PMRaiding may not be for everyone... But it is for me. And I want to attempt it with other Randoms. Because if you haven't noticed yet.. There are already signs of some of you being very picky and specific about who you would accept into your group to attempt the raid. "Must have stats similar or better than mine" IE. Alot of people are never going to be presented the opportunity to raid. Because you're not the right class, not the right level, not the right equipment, not a high enough rank, etc. I've been there. And it's stupid.. Too see people denying you based on something like rank. But you never get a chance to rank up, because noone wants to take you because you have no rank. It's like a vicious circle of stupidity. But you people just don't think this kind of shit through. TL:DR This is the internet. Millions of Players And you are trying to limit me to .0000000001% of it. I'm already limited by other factors like ping, distance, etc. Why limit me further with something that is purely based on an opinion of how YOU think the game should be played? At the very least, consider that this allows randoms to at least ATTEMPT it, and start to learn it. So that when they do finally go looking for a real group. They go in with some knowledge about it instead of a being a complete noob having to rely on the others in the group to teach them from the very beginning. Once you have your raiding group setup... how likely are you to accept a completely new player who's never raided before? (Don't lie) Now, same scenario, only this time this new player actually has had the opportunity to raid before... with randoms. So they at least have a slight clue about what the Raid is all about. I figured it out, what your problem is. YOU take the game to seriously. You are trying to turn raids into something, where the prospect of attempting a Raid and not being absolutely built to complete it, or anything considered just "Passing the time" while attempting the raid is Blasphemous. If it took 1,000 attempts with randoms to finally complete the raid once.... Why do you care so much? Especially if you are going to be supposedly passing it at 100% efficiency with your private group? What are you so afraid of? And quit falling back on that lazy -blam!-ing excuse about them nerfing the difficulty.
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Edited by OutHouse: 8/27/2014 9:32:35 AMClearly. Raids are [i]not[/i] for you. If u dont like the social aspect of it. Hust because it doesnt for your definition of social gaming. Why should people like me, who want to go spend weeks grinding reputation and then materials for a key. Just to get access. And then hit said raid for days. Be limited by ppl like u who want to run it with randoms. Raids with randoms [i]doesnt work[/i]. If u stop at boss #18 for the noght after like 30 hours of straight raiding. How do u link up again with randoms? The same ones? And they are gonna stay? Of course not. U wanna meet ppl there are other was to do it before attenpting the raid. Stop trolling.
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Edited by BobRob 12: 8/27/2014 5:03:49 PMBut you yourself will [u]never[/u] play with [i]randoms[/i] so why would it possibly matter to you if others do? I understand you're concerned with the [b]integrity[/b] of the Raid. I get it, I really do. It's supposed to be incredibly difficult and some people think that if six randomly selected players are capable of completing it and you (and I'm speaking of the fugurative you) and your five carefully chosen friends can't, then it's not really a true raid. That's the underlying truth that I think many people need to realize. It's a pride thing with people who play games. The ability to say, "Look at what I did! You want this kind of glory? You gotta earn it!" And to be fair, that's essentially what Bungie is saying in regards to Raids as well as everything in Destiny. Cool gear must be earned. Hunter cloaks, earned. Exotic weapons, earned. The rub with this community is in the [u]how[/u]. They don't want others to be able to sit down alone, have a team put together for them, and complete what is supposed to be the penultimate experience of a [b][u]highly[/u][/b] anticipated game. It's very much like all the Road to 50 videos we saw during the Halo days. Elite gamers earning their way to the top just to show they could. Edit - sp
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[quote]Raiding may not be for everyone... But it is for me. And I want to attempt it with other Randoms.[/quote] Hate to break it to you, but if that's how you think then raids aren't actually for you.
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You're just proving his "exclusion beyond evidence" point.
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Raids are for the upper echelons, not the every-man. There is literally nothing wrong with being exclusive in this case. Bungie themselves are being exclusive.
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Yes, and that's what people are essentially arguing about. Saying they're for the upper echelon is just excluding people from enjoying a game they paid money to play. Not simply because they aren't skilled enough to get there, but because they may not have the time to seek out and evaluate five other gamers who by the way, are also doing the same thing. If it was simply a level gate system whereby you had to reach a certain level before you could play, then that would be fine. It would be mandated that you become proficient enough in the game to get to that level and if you're not, well, work your way up there. But since it also incorporates a requirement to bring along five other people, that's where it gets dicey. I've reached the level needed to play, I should be allowed to play regardless of if I'm bringing anyone with me or not.
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[quote]Saying they're for the upper echelon is just excluding people from enjoying a game they paid money to play[/quote] You paid to have access to the game. You have access to raids just the same as anyone else. This argument does not hold.
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Way to truncate my statement to fit your own views. You yourself said, "there is literally nothing wrong with being exclusive, Bungie themselves are being exclusive," and yet now you say we all have access. [quote]This argument does not hold.[/quote] Oh look, I can do it, too.
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[quote]Way to truncate my statement to fit your own views.[/quote] I quoted part the part of your argument which I was responding to so you and other people would be able to follow the arguments better. I apologize if this confused you. [quote]You yourself said, "there is literally nothing wrong with being exclusive, Bungie themselves are being exclusive,"[/quote] That is a true statement. [quote]and yet now you say we all have access.[/quote] Everyone does have access. That does not mean that raids are catered to the general public. In fact, they are catered to a quite particular, exclusive crowd. But yes, everyone does have access to raids should they choose to go through proper methods. [quote][quote]This argument does not hold.[/quote][/quote] Still is true. [quote]Oh look, I can do it, too.[/quote] I don't get what you're trying to say here.
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Oh there wasn't any confusion. I know exactly what you were [u]trying[/u] to do. But no matter, regardless of you omitting details of my post that provided context, it's still up there for others to read. [quote]Everyone does have access. That does not mean that raids are catered to the general public. In fact, they are catered to a quite particular, exclusive crowd. But yes, everyone does have access to raids should they choose to go through proper methods.[/quote] Now you're arguing semantics, either you think everyone should be able to play, or you don't. You clearly don't, and that exclusionary attitude is sad and only hurts the community. But we can go round and round like this all day, you're not going to agree with me, nor I, you. [quote]I don't get what you're trying to say here.[/quote] I was replying to you in the same method you did to me, sorry if I confused you.
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[quote]Now you're arguing semantics, either you think everyone should be able to play, or you don't.[/quote] Are you being told "Only those who we deem 'elite' will be allowed to attempt raids?" No, you aren't. Raids are intended for the elite to play them, but are open to attempts by people of all levels of skill and dedication. Therefore, they are available to everyone. No semantics here. [quote]You clearly don't, and that exclusionary attitude is sad and only hurts the community.[/quote] Assuming I truly had a proper "exclusionary attitude", which I don't, how would that hurt the community? It sounds like being exclusionary would have a positive impact for those who want to be so.
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For one the level is not being picky, you have to be a required level to even step foot in the raid. Secondly, then make your own group. It isn't very hard. To sit here and explain to me how you do not want to miss content in a game because you sit here telling me that they do not allow you to match up with other random players to attempt raiding? Don't be lazy and head to the forums and clan page and make your own. That is what almost everyone else has done. If you have tried before and have failed, try again. It took me almost a month to get together a group in which I was comfortable with, and knowing the members were dedicated to play on (Example, Sunday/Tuesdays 8Pm-Midnight CST). Those are the times we will be raiding. We have a group of 6 and are working around those raid times to attempt to clear through the raid. Now after you reply to my post, you are telling me it is your problem, and you will figure it out? No, you are lazy. You want Bungie to get everything together for you. Don't call people out for taking things to seriously. I want to raid, so I went ahead and got everything ready so I will be able to atleast see 100% of the content I am paying for. You on the other hand, are explaining how it will take 1000 attempts for a clear? Have you ever raided before? I had a hard time raiding with a PUG (Pick up group) with 10 wipes (Wipes = all players die and you have to reattempt the encounter). Someone always would either leave, or begin pulling the boss early for a good laugh. I extremely doubt they will add matchmaking. So go make your own group. Until you do that everything you say is just an excuse of not using what you have available.
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This game will be a success with or without you. I can't stand people wanting everyone to do it for them. It's an excuse. Do it yourself.
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Edited by MR E0S: 8/27/2014 1:36:40 AMin this case Do it Yourself means... I'm ready to raid right now. But, by the time I finally get around to doing the raid, it's probably at least 24 Hours to a week later, When I may not even be interested in raiding at that time anymore. That is the solution you advocate. Raids don't need to be taken so seriously that you are going to try to dictate that randoms can't even make an attempt at it. Let the randoms decide for themselves whether they want to waste their time. You don't need to tell me how and who I'm allowed to play with. It's as simple as that. Bungie + their community = Elitest Selfish pricks who go out of there way to make a non-issue they don't have to deal with... an issue that personally affects them somehow. Cause I'll say it again. Even if it was an option. YOU DON'T HAVE TO -blam!-ING USE IT! So denying it to me and my kind, is just that.. YOU BEING SELFISH -blam!-ING PRICKS!!! Nothing more, nothing less. There is no advantage that any of you gain, other than the thought that..... "heheh, randoms don't get to play all the content this game has to offer.... hehehe. Aren't we so cool....hehehe" "Hehe, we turned Raids into a popularity contest.. .hehehe. Aren't we so cool... hehehehe HUH! DUHR!" Revel in your selfish ways you -blam!-ing losers.
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[quote]Raids don't need to be taken so seriously that you are going to try to dictate that randoms can't even make an attempt at it.[/quote] Confirmed for never having actually raided before. With that attitude, I don't think you ever will either.
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When posting actually have a point to your post. Give evidence and a smart reply. Dont need to use so much profanity to get the message across. They are made to spend a long time raiding. This means getting a custom to a small raid group and working together. Thats the end of it. Thats how they are designed. The end.
