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originally posted in:Halo Archive
4/8/2014 12:02:43 AM
35
Maybe he just used High Charity's existing slipspace to put himself inside of the portal, sending him to the Ark. Kind of like the facility Halsey and friends found.
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1. Where would it retrieve the exact coordinates for the Ark? 2. It would take over 100 years of Slipspace travel just to reach the Ark.
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Simple. He arrives at Earth. Goes "Hey, a portal! That looks important, but I'm too big to fit inside. I know, I'll just mozzy up next to it, Slipspace inside, and I may get through with the entire ship. If not, who bloody cares? Doesn't seem like there would be a shortage on the other side." Exact coordinates: check (remember how he got inside High Charity? The dude's accurate) Timely manner: check (he just sent himself through the same portal in a different way) Once again, the evidence that such a feat may be possible is that Halsey found a Forerunner facility within multiple Slipspace bubbles. And if you think this has never happened before and therefore is not possible, consider the other notable first-time event that happened around that time: Regret using Slipspace in atmosphere. That was also considered too complicated to be possible.
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[quote]Simple. He arrives at Earth. Goes "Hey, a portal! That looks important, but I'm too big to fit inside. I know, I'll just mozzy up next to it, Slipspace inside, and I may get through with the entire ship. If not, who bloody cares? Doesn't seem like there would be a shortage on the other side."[/quote]1. An event like that or one similar to it has yet to happen in the Halo Lore, making it head-canon to believe it to be possible. 2. Let's hypothetically say it is possible. Well, then the problem is that slipspace is a tangled ball of yarn comprised of 11 different dimensions. That makes the odds of hitting the portal in slipspace so improbable, that you might as well consider it impossible. [quote]Once again, the evidence that such a feat may be possible is that Halsey found a Forerunner facility within multiple Slipspace bubbles.[/quote]Slipspace locked objects have nothing to do with portals or Slipspace travel. [quote]And if you think this has never happened before and therefore is not possible, consider the other notable first-time event that happened around that time: Regret using Slipspace in atmosphere. That was also considered too complicated to be possible.[/quote]This is a misconception you're making. Shaw-Fujikawa drives are too inaccurate to adjust to enter slipspace properly in the pull of a planetary body. With how accurate Covenant ships are, it was theorized by the UNSC that they could enter slipspace properly without issue. This theory was proven when Cortana activated the Ascendant Justice's slipspace drives in the gravitational field of a gas giant. Still, such a feat is not comparable to what you are describing, so the analogy does not work.
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The odds of hitting the right slipspace thing seems to be 11:1. However, he just took over a huge amount of biomass in what was an extremely valuable asset, so there was bound to be some Covenant scientists and experts lost to the Flood. Combine these guys, High Charity's computers, Flood computers (Such as Captain Keyes and [i]The Mona Lisa[/i]), the Gravemind, and assistance from Cortana and it's possible that he got it in a try or two. He did arrive a little late, if you remember.
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[quote]The odds of hitting the right slipspace thing seems to be 11:1[/quote] ... what? where'd you get the twelfth dimension from? also why are the odds so high? do you mean the probability is 1:11? regardless, even doing [i]that[/i] would require ridiculous technological expertise and slipspace manipulation we haven't ever even seen. i don't know where you people are getting the idea that the gravemind would just be able to pick and choose a "stream" in slipstream. there's literally nothing that supports it and it's technologically so far above any feat that we've ever seen made by the covenant, humans, and flood in the entire series that it just doesn't seem plausible in any method whatsoever.
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Edited by Tilted the Wolf: 4/9/2014 6:28:13 PMOne, I never took statistics, so I won't say I got the odds right without a doubt. Two, I never said he got it right his first try. He could have just gotten lucky and had it work in a try or ten. Three, we're talking about a universe where Master Chief can defeat almost every enemy he faces by punching it in the face. A few oddities of space magic should be allowed.
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[quote]Two, I never said he got it right his first try. He could have just gotten lucky and had it work in a try or ten.[/quote] or ten thousand. or not, considering the probability is next to, if not zero. [quote]Three, we're talking about a universe where Master Chief can defeat almost every enemy he faces by punching it in the face.[/quote] not canonically. [quote]A few oddities of space magic should be allowed.[/quote] except for when it conflicts with the flow of the story, lore, and basic logic.
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Errr... a thousand? He's going to end up in one of eleven places. One of which is the right place. That's about a 9.1% chance of getting it each time. That's better odds than winning the lottery, and people do that.
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A) you're [i]completely[/i] disregarding extraneous variables. [i]reality manipulation is no easy feat.[/i] can he even do what you're saying he's capable of? i've seen [i]nothing[/i] to suggest that a gravemind can perform a feat even close to what you're saying is possible. B) it's not just "eleven places." you're implying that only eleven ships can go through slipspace at once in different directions [even though that's obviously untrue]. each dimension is part of our reality, but there's nothing to suggest that dimensions are ascribed to specific "slipstreams."
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Edited by Tilted the Wolf: 4/9/2014 11:13:06 PMI'm not sure you actually understand what I'm suggesting, so I'll make it simple. Assume a girl named Jill has a spaceship of indiscriminate size. On this spaceship is a Slipspace drive. It can go anywhere Jill wants it to, provided Jill knows where that is. One day, Jill finds a Slipspace portal inside a large, clear bubble. Jill wants to go through, but she can't fly through the bubble. And that's a shame, because the portal is just barely fitting inside the bubble. Jill doesn't know where the portal leads to, but she knows where the inside of the bubble is. So, Jill uses her Slipspace drive to put her spaceship inside the bubble and portal. After exiting Slipspace, Jill is at the portal connected to the one she found. Did Jill go through the portal? Yes. Does Jill know how exactly that happened? No. It's space magic as far as she is concerned. This situation is rather similar to the one we have, the difference being that size is the barrier to entry. [spoiler]Coincidentally, did High Charity actually come through as the whole ship? It could have just shoved itself into the portal and let whatever made it through get teleported.[/spoiler]
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Edited by kgj: 4/9/2014 11:35:17 PM[quote]I'm not sure you actually understand what I'm suggesting, so I'll make it simple.[/quote] i do. it's just highly improbable, bordering on impossible. [quote]Assume a girl named Jill has a spaceship of indiscriminate size. [/quote] right, so high charity. [quote]On this spaceship is a Slipspace drive. It can go anywhere Jill wants it to, provided Jill knows where that is.[/quote] okay. [quote]One day, Jill finds a Slipspace portal inside a large, clear bubble. [/quote] i assume the "bubble" is slipstream space? A) if it's completely clear, how exactly is does jill know that the bubble exists, and more importantly, where it is? B) why is the portal inside the bubble? the portal is not inside slipstream space. the portal leads [i]into[/i] slipstream space. [quote]Jill wants to go through, but she can't fly through the bubble. And that's a shame, because the portal is just barely fitting inside the bubble. [/quote] A) right, this is analogous to the ark portal. only the problem is that the bubble isn't a proper analogy for the ark portal as the "location" of the inside doesn't mean anything and that they can't B) the portal is fitting inside the bubble? what? [quote]Jill doesn't know where the portal leads to, but she knows where the inside of the bubble is.[/quote] how? the inside of the bubble is within one of [i]eleven dimensions.[/i] not to mention we know [b]absolutely nothing[/i] about the composition of said eleven dimensions. how easy is it to find something inside a slipstream "dimension?" you're assuming [with this analogy] that the inside slipspace bubble occupies the same position in regular space-time as anything else and that simply teleporting inside that area will provide access to the same slipstream that the portal opens. this is a [i]ridiculous[/i] assumption. [quote]So, Jill uses her Slipspace drive to put her spaceship inside the bubble and portal.[/quote] this is highly improbable, and given the fact that we've [i]never seen anything of the sort ever being done before in any piece of lore ever including even the forerunners and precursors themselves[/i] i'm willing to bet it's fairly impossible for even the gravemind's intellect to achieve the feat. have we seen the covenant manipulate slipspace this way and is it in their technological experience to do so? no. have we seen humanity manipulate slipspace this way and is it in their technological experience to do so? no. the only saving grace are the shattered shards of a forerunner crystal on high charity and [i]even then[/i] the forerunners haven't manipulated slipspace in the way that you're implying ever before. [quote]After exiting Slipspace, Jill is at the portal connected to the one she found.[/quote] she can't even make the jump inside as she has no idea where the inside of the bubble is. [quote]Did Jill go through the portal? Yes.[/quote] again, [i]highly[/i] improbable. [quote]Does Jill know how exactly that happened? [/quote] i'd be very surprised if she did. [quote]No. It's space magic as far as she is concerned.[/quote] which is about as good an explanation as me saying that the gravemind used space magic to build a new ark portal on the outskirts of substance. [quote]Coincidentally, did High Charity actually come through as the whole ship? [/quote] yes. [quote]It could have just shoved itself into the portal and let whatever made it through get teleported.[/quote] and... what exactly? have the gravemind attack with just 1/3 of the ship remaining?
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Edited by Tilted the Wolf: 4/10/2014 1:21:43 AMYou do not understand the concept of a bubble. It's a spherical membrane with a hollow inside. In this example the bubble is not able to be penetrated by the ship when the ship uses normal engines. The bubble is not related to the portal in any way other than being a barrier to the portal. Either can exist without the other. As for getting inside, Jill knows the location of the inside of the BUBBLE. So she goes inside the BUBBLE. The PORTAL is filling the inside of the BUBBLE, so going inside the BUBBLE means being in the PORTAL'S area of effect. The PORTAL itself is a relatively unknown thing. We don't know if it's just one thing of Slipspace, or uses all of them as a contingency plan. Nobody here knows much about what Slipspace is or what it does, even if they won't admit it. Jill fell asleep in that class herself. So let's recap. Jill finds a bubble. Jill warps (slipspaces) inside the bubble. A portal in the bubble warps Jill to another spot as soon as Jill finished her own warp, or perhaps even, although unlikely, the portal warped Jill while she was in a warp stream or whatever. And in case you haven't noticed, Slipspace drives work by taking objects in regular space-time in an area and moving them somewhere else. We've never seen anyone warp into another slipspace portal, or even just the area it is covering, as it would have been completely useless to do that for any ship already equipped with a drive. Any portal would have been made for moving into (walking, flying, ect.), but never anticipated to handle a ship comming out of normal warp travel inside of it. [spoiler]As for the alternative, which is a better move: arriving at the Ark with 1/3 of your forces (a fraction of which can overrun planets), or arrive a century later with all of your forces? [/spoiler]
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What in the hell are you talking about? I myself know how Slipspace works, and so does Gojira. [quote]slipspaces[/quote]Why plural? I've explained it to you before, how are you not getting that Slipspace is 11 dimensions in [b][u]one reality[/u][/b]?
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Slipspace is a fictional thing. It was made up by one dude, and another dude added on some stuff. It's traits are subject to change at any time. Not all aspects and possibilities have been explored. Ergo, you can't be an expert because nobody knows anything more than a certain bit of things that were convenient to explain at the time. I use a plural form because it's a hell of a lot easier to say "slipspaces" than "the eleven slipspace demensions that make up one reality". I offer you the same challenge I offered the Godzilla guy. Explain how High Charity got there.
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Edited by Mr Admirals7044: 4/10/2014 2:03:13 AM[quote]Slipspace is a fictional thing. It was made up by one dude, and another dude added on some stuff. It's traits are subject to change at any time.[/quote]Actually no. There's something called canon that prevents that. [quote]Not all aspects and possibilities have been explored.[/quote]Yeah, but what logic is that? "Oh slipspace has yet to be fully explained therefore I can make up anything about it and pass it off as pseudo canon." Halo follows its canon. Fans [u]DO NOT[/u] dictate the canon. If you have nothing from Halo itself to support your idea/concept, then you can't push as something being possible. Hell, I'm not pushing my own opinion on what the solution for the plot hole will be because nothing in Halo supports its validity. [quote]Ergo, you can't be an expert because nobody knows anything more than a certain bit of things that were convenient to explain at the time.[/quote]Actually, I can be among Halo fans because only 343i knows everything they have planned out for Slipspace if anything more. I only state what is canon about slipspace. I do not make conjecture, nor do I make large conclusions about it. [quote]I use a plural form because it's a hell of a lot easier to say "slipspaces" than "the eleven slipspace demensions that make up one reality".[/quote]You're logic confuses the hell out of me. Eleven dimensions make up slipspace. The eleven dimensions [i]are[/i] slipspace. Why do you think we all call it just, "slipspace"? [quote]I offer you the same challenge I offered the Godzilla guy. Explain how High Charity got there.[/quote]From a canon standpoint? I can't tell you. The canon says High Charity cannot reach the Ark, yet it is also canon that it does. This is a plot hole. This thread was simply made to validify it as being a plothole. My own personal assumption on what the solution will be if/when 343i fixes it is this: The portal generator detects High Charity's trajectory, and accounts for its size. The pylons on the generator open up even more, creating a larger portal and High Charity flies through safely. Makes a lot more sense than you making up things about a fictional reality in space that you seldom understand anything about.
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Evidently, me saying "slipspaces" is effective communication, as you understand what I'm talking about. A certain monster was calling them Slipstreams for a time. Rage on him about that. Somebody else offered that same explanation. Guess who told him he was wrong and was making stuff up? [spoiler]I'm trying to work with the canon (the entirety of which was made up) as I understand it. The information which I've been pulling out of you two, and remember myself, is as follows : 1). Slipspace is eleven twisted planes of existence which make up reality. 2). It is possible to travel at speeds faster than light in "regular space-time" (not my term) by covering the distances while using a Slipspace Drive. 3). A SSD (slipspace drive) works by expanding out an area of effect from a point (usually the SSD itself) until it envelopes the desired area, typically the ship carrying it. The enveloped area is then transported through the SS to a point. No object in regular spacetime is interacted with during the ship's voyage, and distances are presumably different. (Such as one kilometers in regular is just a meter in another plane, but the end points match up.) If not distances, then time flow. 4). It is possible to put one object into an area of an SSD's effect, make another SSD produce another A of E, put an object inside that, and continue like this until it becomes too unstable. The object inside the most SSDs will experience time the fastest. 5). High Charity has an SSD, and a bunch of ships with SSDs that were captured by the Flood. 6). High Charity is too wide to fit through the portal leading to the Ark. 7). The "Portal over Voi" or, more commonly, portal, is not a teleporter. It could be said to be a wormhole, linking two points together with much shorter distances between the two via SS. The shorter distances can only be utilized by making "contact" with the A of E the portal has. 8). The object producing the portal was powered by a ship known as Dreadnought (If not that, Eiffel Tower in Space). The Portal machine that was being powered had the location of where to open both ends of the portal already stored on it. I would wager that it retained some level of contact with the Ark in order to adjust for universal expansion. 9). High Charity made it to the Ark in one piece. Two theories attempt to amend this plot hole. A) . The portal was not operating at max capacity. It sensed the approach of a larger ship and adjusted accordingly. If the portal is ever seen again after the arrival of HC, do give a measurement. B). HC attempted to use it's SSD to move over to the regular spacetime point that the portal is now active over. By doing this, it's regular spacetime diameter was reduced to a point that, upon returning to regular spacetime, it was sent through the portal. It was in the point relative to the portal's position in regular spacetime in another part of SS, returned to reg. ST, and as it did so, it was moved by the portal, and it arrived in it's entirety at the Ark. No attempt was made to access the portal's connection to the Ark by finding the right plane of SS, it only entered SS to momentarily adjust itself to fit inside of the portal's A of E. [/spoiler] Please, please address one section at a time. I have been on mobile this entire time and have found it difficult to explain my theory and think it out more before being bombarded again, over some of the silliest things, too. I don't get to check your reply once I am writing my own. So only comment on the really important stuff. And theories of the fans have been known to work their way into official canon (i.e., the Legend of Zelda timeline). So, would you rather there not be any explanation, a fan suggested explanation, an official explanation (which might not be satisfactory), or an answer made by fans and approved by officials? (That's a rhetorical question. You need your answer more than I need your answer.)
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Edited by kgj: 4/10/2014 4:34:02 AM[quote]Evidently, me saying "slipspaces" is effective communication, as you understand what I'm talking about. A certain monster was calling them Slipstreams for a time. Rage on him about that. [/quote] i was going with your established logic. i said, numerous times, that the entire thought of "picking dimensions" is ridiculously difficult and probably not even possible. [quote]I'm trying to work with the canon (the entirety of which was made up)[/quote] ... right. [quote]1). Slipspace is eleven twisted planes of existence which make up reality. [/quote] [i]no.[/i] [b]dimensions are not "planes of existence."[/b] [quote]2). It is possible to travel at speeds faster than light in "regular space-time" (not my term) by covering the distances while using a Slipspace Drive.[/quote] erm, yes? indirectly though, as you're not even in regular space-time when you're in slipspace. [quote]3). A SSD (slipspace drive) works by expanding out an area of effect from a point (usually the SSD itself) [/quote] woah there. if it was the slipspace drive itself [which is mounted inside the ship] it would, uh... [url=http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/8/87/LNoS_ends.jpg]that.[/url] [quote]until it envelopes the desired area, typically the ship carrying it. [/quote] you've got the right idea. [quote]The enveloped area is then transported through the SS to a point. No object in regular spacetime is interacted with during the ship's voyage, [/QUOTE] got the right idea here. [quote]and distances are presumably different. [/quote] well it's eleven dimensions. distance is the least of our worries, but i suppose this works too. [quote[(Such as one kilometers in regular is just a meter in another plane, but the end points match up.) If not distances, then time flow. [/quote] *shrug* [quote]4). It is possible to put one object into an area of an SSD's effect, [/quote] right. [quote]make another SSD produce another A of E, put an object inside that, [/quote] a completely separate a of e? yes. [quote]and continue like this until it becomes too unstable. [/quote] what do you mean becomes too unstable? if you have unlinked drives producing different portals in different space-time locations then there's really nothing to suggest that there will be a problem at all. the size of slipstream space has never been detailed, and, considering the way forerunners and precursors so casually transported objects of vast sizes and numbers through it, it should really be able to withstand anything the current species of the galaxy throw at it. let alone the halo 3 era galaxy. the only thing to even strain slipspace was when the halos were being moved around and we're doing [i]nothing[/i] of the sort here. [quote]The object inside the most SSDs will experience time the fastest.[/quote] [i]what?[/i] [b][i]what?[/b][/i] [b][u][i]what?[/i][/u][/b] what do you mean the object inside the most slipspace drives experiences time the fastest? no. A) how do you go inside slipspace drives? B) how do you go into more than one slipspace drive/slipstream at the same time? C) how is the time of travel dependent on the [i]most[/i] exposure to slipstream space? really, there's [i]nothing[/i] correlating the two. the time of travel is still dependent on the speed of the ship itself. it's not like we have to open up more slipspace portals to go faster. [quote]5). High Charity has an SSD, and a bunch of ships with SSDs that were captured by the Flood.[/quote] correct. [quote]7). The "Portal over Voi" or, more commonly, portal, is not a teleporter. [/quote] technically no. [quote]It could be said to be a wormhole, linking two points together with much shorter distances between the two via SS. [/quote] [i]shorter distances is not a guarantee.[/i] we have no idea how slipspace works. it encompasses [b]eleven dimensions.[/b] for all we know it could be the same distance with the other dimensions making all objects inside it travel faster somehow. there is nothing to predicate assumptions off of on this, and pretty much anything we say is headcanon. [quote]The shorter distances can only be utilized by making "contact" with the A of E the portal has.[/quote] well access to slipstream can. [quote]8). The object producing the portal was powered by a ship known as Dreadnought (If not that, Eiffel Tower in Space). [/quote] technically that's wrong. it was known as a dreadnought to the covenant, but it's actually a special class called the keyship :P [quote]The Portal machine that was being powered had the location of where to open both ends of the portal already stored on it. [/quote] that it did. [quote]I would wager that it retained some level of contact with the Ark in order to adjust for universal expansion.[/quote] i disagree, but it's not necessarily out of the question. [quote]9). High Charity made it to the Ark in one piece. Two theories attempt to amend this plot hole.[/quote] alright, let's do this. [quote]A) . The portal was not operating at max capacity. It sensed the approach of a larger ship and adjusted accordingly. If the portal is ever seen again after the arrival of HC, do give a measurement.[/quote] this makes a ton of sense... except... how close to the ground would it be if it was 300 kilometers? it would have to change its position to move. also, why didn't gravemind swiftly infect earth? [quote]B). HC attempted to use it's SSD to move over to the regular spacetime point that the portal is now active over. [/quote] [i]yes.[/i] that's the [b]entire problem.[/b] if it exits on that point it will not fit. [quote]By doing this, it's regular spacetime diameter was reduced to a point that, upon returning to regular spacetime, it was sent through the portal. [/quote] which still doesn't make any sense as it would have to [i]exist that slipstream space[/i] to enter the new portal. if it [b]does[/b] it will be transported molecule by molecule through the portal as it will exit the previous portal [b]and then[/b] go through the portal and that distance would be so ludicrously small that both events would happen at the same time. the instantaneous return would totally shred the ship itself [part of it would be in one slipstream and the other would be in something completely different- remember that exits from slipspace are not instantaneous (see ark opening cutscene and, well, pretty much every slipspace maneuver in halo's visual history)]. unless you're saying that they teleport the [i]portal itself[/i] through the portal, which is obviously ridiculous. and really, if this is the point that you were trying to make you could have just said that it teleports to the exact location of the portal itself. [quote]It was in the point relative to the portal's position in regular spacetime in another part of SS, [/quote] i have no idea what you're trying to say here. [quote]returned to reg. ST, and as it did so, it was moved by the portal, and it arrived in it's entirety at the Ark. [/quote] it would theoretically arrive in a billion or so pieces. [quote]No attempt was made to access the portal's connection to the Ark by finding the right plane of SS, [/quote] i hope not, as the "right plane" of slipspace is something completely foreign to pretty much anyone. [quote]it only entered SS to momentarily adjust itself to fit inside of the portal's A of E. [/quote] which is impossible as it would both be exiting one portal and entering another one. [quote]Please, please address one section at a time. [/quote] i think i did an okay job. [quote]I have been on mobile this entire time and have found it difficult to explain my theory and think it out more before being bombarded again, over some of the silliest things, too. [/quote] in any event i apologize. [quote]I don't get to check your reply once I am writing my own. So only comment on the really important stuff.[/quote] ... oops. [quote]And theories of the fans have been known to work their way into official canon (i.e., the Legend of Zelda timeline).[/quote] yes, but until they do work their way in they're not official canon. [quote]So, would you rather there not be any explanation, a fan suggested explanation, an official explanation (which might not be satisfactory), or an answer made by fans and approved by officials? (That's a rhetorical question. You need your answer more than I need your answer.)[/quote] my priorities: 1) official explanation. 2) fan answer approved by officials [pretty much synonymous with 1)]. 3) fan answer that makes sense and follows every rule of logic and instance of canon. 4) no concrete explanation until 1) or 2) is satisfied. *shrug*
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[quote]Slipspace is a fictional thing. It was made up by one dude, and another dude added on some stuff. It's traits are subject to change at any time. Not all aspects and possibilities have been explored. Ergo, you can't be an expert because nobody knows anything more than a certain bit of things that were convenient to explain at the time.[/quote] except it's still subject to the canonical restraints and properties placed on it. [i]there are eleven dimensions [b]in slipspace.[/b][/i] it's not "let me choose this one." [quote]I use a plural form because it's a hell of a lot easier to say "slipspaces" than "the eleven slipspace demensions that make up one reality".[/quote] that's like saying that "i said realities because it's easier to say than the three dimensions that make up our universe/reality." [quote]I offer you the same challenge I offered the Godzilla guy. Explain how High Charity got there.[/quote] [i]there is no legitimate explanation.[/i] again, [b]that's the entire point.[/b]
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I've spent more time than I care to admit arguing with a guy who thinks I'm writing things I'm not, doesn't understand what a bubble is, and doesn't even care to consider a theory offered to try to explain an event that he considers impossible, despite the event indeed happening. Not only that, but he will also say things to be wrong, and then cite the reason to be the same thing he's saying is wrong! The nerve. I've had better arguments with Camnator, where at least I know why he ignores parts of the discussion and puts words into my mouth.
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Edited by kgj: 4/10/2014 2:14:46 AM[quote]I've spent more time than I care to admit arguing with a guy who thinks I'm writing things I'm not, [/quote] i was asking you for clarification. [quote]doesn't understand what a bubble is, [/quote] you haven't pointed out to me how i don't. [quote]and doesn't even care to consider a theory [/quote] i've been considering it for around eight posts. i guess proffering criticism equates to a lack of consideration right? [quote]offered to try to explain an event that he considers impossible, despite the event indeed happening. [/quote] i do consider it to be inexplicable. there are no truly "impossible" events in writing. [quote]Not only that, but he will also say things to be wrong, [/quote] what? [quote]and then cite the reason [/quote] [i]what?[/i] [quote]to be the same thing he's saying is wrong! [/quote] [b][i]what?[/i][/b] [quote]The nerve.[/quote] man, i'm so sorry for acting up. i don't really know where i did that, but whatever i guess. you have my apology. [quote]I've had better arguments with Camnator, [/quote] so? [quote]where at least I know why he ignores parts of the discussion and puts words into my mouth.[/quote] A) what have ignored? B) resisting the urge to tu quoque here.
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That bubble analogy made no sense whatsoever. I hope you realize that.
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You made Zero sense with this. In order to go through a portal the object does not need to be in slipspace itself.
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I didn't intend for it to pass through slipspace. At first I figured it could store itself in its own little ball of slipspace and have that ball be transported by the portal, but after being thoroughly informed that that's neigh impossible, I now simply suggest that it might be possible to utilize the exit of slipspace right where the portal is to allow the portal to "consume" it as it comes out.
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All of this is jibber jabber
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[quote]You do not understand the concept of a bubble. It's a spherical membrane with a hollow inside. [/quote] what's wrong with my interpretation of your analogy [i]exactly?[/i] is the bubble not supposed to be slipstream space? [quote]In this example the bubble is not able to be penetrated by the ship when the ship uses normal engines. The bubble is not related to the portal in any way other than being a barrier to the portal. Either can exist without the other.[/quote] erm, okay. [quote]As for getting inside, Jill knows the location of the inside of the BUBBLE. So she goes inside the BUBBLE. The PORTAL is filling the inside of the BUBBLE, so going inside the BUBBLE means being in the PORTAL'S area of effect.[/quote] [i]how do we know where the inside of the bubble is. assuming it's slipstream space? how do we know where we go after we enter the portal?[/i] [quote]The PORTAL itself is a relatively unknown thing. We don't know if it's just one thing of Slipspace, or uses all of them as a contingency plan. Nobody here knows much about what Slipspace is or what it does, even if they won't admit it. Jill fell asleep in that class herself.[/quote] [i]what?[/i] [quote]So let's recap. Jill finds a bubble. Jill warps (slipspaces) inside the bubble. A portal in the bubble warps Jill to another spot as soon as Jill finished her own warp, or perhaps even, although unlikely, the portal warped Jill while she was in a warp stream or whatever.[/quote] this makes no sense to me at all. [i]what is the bubble[/i] in your analogy? you placed a constraint on it, saying that you could only enter it when you were using your slipspace drives, so i assumed that you meant slipstream space. nothing here makes any sense. [i]how does the gravemind know where to teleport?[/i] [spoiler]having 1/3 of the ship would mean that high charity would essentially be powerless. the gravemind would have killed himself and pretty much all of his forces trying to get there. regardless, we see the entirety of high charity in its entrance cutscene, so this is a moot point.[/spoiler]
