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1/14/2014 7:47:23 PM
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Too bad you never really see any of this explained in the game. :/ Especially after the "you won't need to read the books to understand what is going on" line from Frank O' Connor.
All you get is I'm awake! *twirls mustache* time to die human!
English
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Edited by Mr Admirals7044: 1/15/2014 2:20:31 AMFirst off, you are given the Domain Terminals. Secondly, the in game dialogue provides information on who he is and why he's like that. [i]"Mankind spread into the stars with an unexpected, desperate violence. Entire systems fell before the Didact's Warrior-Servants rose to halt the aggression." -Cutscene, Reclaimer, Halo 4[/i] We annihilated entire systems of Forerunners before they could properly mobilize against us. [i]"When the Didact finally exhausted the humans after a millennia, his sentence was severe." -Cutscene, Reclaimer, Halo 4[/i] The imagery provided in the cutscene shows how brutal the fighting was. And that brutal fighting continued for 1,000 years of war as evident by the quote. [i]"The Forerunners made plans for a final, great journey. But the Didact refused to yield our Mantle of Responsibility. He would save all life in the galaxy... at a cost." -Cutscene, Reclaimer, Halo 4 "The Mantle of Responsibility for the galaxy shelters all, human. But only the Forerunners are its masters." -Gameplay, Shutdown, Halo 4[/i] With the Flood closing in, the Forerunners prepared the Halo Array and pass on the Mantle. However, the Didact believed Forerunners were the Mantle's masters and was quite insistent the Halos didn't need to be fired and he could save everyone. [i]"Such moral concerns faded from the Didact's attention. The Flood only assimilated living tissue. The Composer would provide the Didact his solution... and his revenge." -Cutscene, Reclaimer, Halo 4[/i] OK, this is a big red flag. Shadow-of-Sundered-Star's nickname is Didact, a derivative of the word didactic, meaning a strict teacher of morals. If the Didact starts to disregard his morals, I think it's pretty obvious his mind has been touched by insanity. Everything above is further supported and elaborated upon in the Terminals which are included in every copy of Halo 4. The Didact's relationship with Chief also changes throughout Halo 4. He originally saw Chief as a tool. A means to an end. He manipulated him to release him. And after that, the Didact has no further use for him, so he discards him. [i]"The Forerunners... have returned. This tomb… is now yours." -Cutscene, Forerunner, Halo 4[/i] When Chief escapes his doom, the Didact is impressed but still doesn't consider him a threat. In fact, he even tries to persuade Chief with logic to turn back and live out the rest of his life as long as he can. [i]"Your actions tread between honor and foolishness." -Gameplay, Shutdown, Halo 4 "Do you truly believe these theatrics can prevent my departure? Embrace your sad fate and retain your nobility. I am already beyond you." -Gameplay, Shutdown, Halo 4 "You will relent, human, or you will perish. All in life is choice. And your day to choose has come." -Gameplay, Shutdown, Halo 4[/i] And as the Didact prepares to leave Requiem, he informs Chief that he has a choice to save his life, or foolishly die trying to stop him. [i]"You impress me, human. Your singular valor will be preserved and studied, once your Composition has been completed." -Gameplay, Composer, Halo 4[/i] Despite the warning, Chief continues anyway and pursues the Didact. The Didact reveals he is impressed that he chose to fight against impossible odds, but reveals he will be killed (obviously not knowing the Librarian inoculated him) [i]"Where reason does not stop you, perhaps force can at least delay you." -Gameplay, Midnight, Halo 4[/i] This is a pretty big change, as this is the first time the Didact actually considers Chief a threat, but knowing what Chief went through, he understands that he won't be able to kill him, so he'll have to delay him until he fires the Composer. And when he does succeed (which is a first considering no Halo antagonist has ever been successful in their goal.) And when Chief finally approaches him, the Didact treats him as an equal, something he didn't do before. [url=http://youtu.be/MlQeLoTUoZE?t=54m20s]Video Context[/url] Notice the fact that the Didact waits until Chief is fully turned around before he attacks him. A sign of equality and fairness. That's all in the game. It's your own fault if you didn't catch any of that.
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I don't understand how after ten years the fan base still cannot understand that the books go in hand with the games. the reason halo 3 is such a jumbled mess is because there isn't anything further expanding on the events that took place. You don't need to read the books to understand halo 4, same as with halo CE and halo 2. Actually, more was explained about the Didact's motives than anything else. He clutches onto the mantle and does not see humans as fit to hold it. Therefore, he wants them gone. Just because the explanation isn't in depth doesn't mean it hasn't been given. The original trilogy never explained the Spartan IIs or why the covenant is attacking humanity. Those were two [b]crucial[/b] plot elements that were explained outside of the games with an issue from the community. I also think we need to stop holding on to every little line a dev says. Bungie and 343I aren't like other devs were they don't say something unless it is 100 percent true. Bungie had said the same thing pertaining to their trilogy (and more) which upset people. i don't see why 343I is expected to be different in that regard. But you do get that. The terminals clearly depict the events that took place prior even if it is "shallow". The point is, the knowledge is there, within the game. If you want a [b]better[/b] understand you can read the novels, which is the same for nearly every universe out there. people need to understand that only so much can be done with a FPS game. It needs to be fun and not shoving the lore down peoples throats that don't care, which is a large amount of people. If they spend so much time perfecting the campaign the multiplayer aspect is going to suffer. seeing as more people care about that, halo wouldn't last long. If this was an RTS or Third person shooter i would agree that there isn't any depth with the explanation. But it is an FPS that had enough depth for you to understand. The actual issue which people fail to correctly bring up is that the Didact wasn't properly [b]introduced[/b]. He wakes up and that is pretty much it. There should have been dialogue between John and the Didact to set the rest of the game up.
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No, the other Halo games could stand completely alone from the extended universe. Halo 4 is built entirely around the EU which is something you should never do. I'm betting that a large portion of the fan base has never read any of the novels and has no care to. They didn't have to before, why should they be forced to now just to have a coherent plot?
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[quote]No, the other Halo games could stand completely alone from the extended universe.[/quote] So using only the info from the games explain these things. -How did John get away from Halo in a bomber that is dependent on a carrier like ship? -How did Johnson survive the Flood when we seen him get jumped by infection forms? -How did Johnson escape Halo and make it to be in Halo 2? -Explain the Spartan 1 program. Since the MC is a Spartan 2 there has to be a program before it. -Explain the Spartan 2 program. Why were they created and what was the program exactly? -Explain the Spartan 3 program. Why were they created when the Spartan 2's are tanks compared to them and what exactly is the program? -Why did the Covenant attack humanity?
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Going off of the games alone, who says the Longsword isn't fully capable of getting somewhere on its own where it can be picked up by the UNSC? From just the game alone we don't know anything about it, nothing says it can or can't get to human held space on its own. 2 and 3. Johnson is just a random marine sergeant in the first game, he wasn't really a character as (like Stacker or any of the other marines with distinctive voices like Chips Dubbo) he could die on any number of missions you had where he was present and then be there again on the next level. In case you don't remember, despite seeing the Flood get him earlier in the game we see him again at the end fighting with an Elite over a weapon and then two of them hugging as the Autumn explodes. That's why Johnson was back again without any real reason in Halo 2, because he hadn't actually been a real character before that point. 4. No one who only plays the games is going to know about there being a Spartan I Program, and Chief is never referred to once in the games as a Spartan II, he is always simply called a Spartan or referred to as "the last Spartan". 5. Who says it needs to be explained anymore than it already is? We know that Chief is a super soldier and supposedly the last one. There doesn't need to be any explicit purpose given for his existence. In the original Star Wars trilogy there isn't much explanation given into why the Jedi exist or were even originally created. Stories don't explain every single little detail, nor should they. Get used to it, or go and complain about every single story out there. 6. As far as any players who only play the games are concerned, there isn't anything ever mentioning Spartan IIIs, the people who've read the books know that Noble Team are IIIs, but people just playing the games won't, they'll just think Noble Team are other Spartans and the same as Master Chief. 7. It's made abundantly clear in Halo 2 (when the Covenant really start getting developed as characters) that the whole entire reason for fighting humanity is based on religious reasoning and that continues in Halo 3.
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[quote]Going off of the games alone, who says the Longsword isn't fully capable of getting somewhere on its own where it can be picked up by the UNSC?[/quote] Because it's dependent on a carrier ship. Look at the jets and carriers. If they didn't need them then they would be at some base here. It wouldn't make since for a bomber to be on that ship when they have a jump drive that can jump from Earth to whatever. We don't have our bombers on carriers. We have them here in a base. [quote] where it can be picked up by the UNSC? [/quote] That would be some very lucky pick up when they made a blind jump from Reach and ended up into an area with a giant undiscovered ring. [quote]From just the game alone we don't know anything about it, nothing says it can or can't get to human held space on its own.[/quote] If it could then it really wouldn't be on that ship. It would jump from the controlled area and bomb the area it needs to and then jump back. [quote]That's why Johnson was back again without any real reason in Halo 2, because he hadn't actually been a real character before that point.[/quote] It doesn't matter if he was a real character or not before Halo 2. They still brought back a character that has no real reason on how he survived to be in the sequel. With the Chief you at least see him leaving the ring in a ship. With Johnson you last seen him on Halo with the Flood all around him. He should have died and never been in Halo 2 since they were to lazy or whatever to come up with a reason in the game for him being alive. It's just another one of their piss poor story telling. [quote]4. No one who only plays the games is going to know about there being a Spartan I Program, and Chief is never referred to once in the games as a Spartan II, he is always simply called a Spartan or referred to as "the last Spartan".[/quote] Then once Halo Reach comes around it's clear that there are 2 other programs before it. [quote]5. Who says it needs to be explained anymore than it already is?[/quote] Because it's not like the Spartans are not important or anything in the game. After all it's not like we play as one in every game, but one. [quote]We know that Chief is a super soldier and supposedly the last one.[/quote] Yeah he's a super solider, but what about it? That still doesn't tell you what a Spartan is and why he's the last one. [quote]There doesn't need to be any explicit purpose given for his existence.[/quote] Wouldn't it make sense to have a reason why we're playing as the soldiers instead of a regular solider? After all the game is filled with normal humans and not Spartans. So something had to happened for them to be created and all of a sudden snuffed out. [quote]but people just playing the games won't, they'll just think Noble Team are other Spartans and the same as Master Chief.[/quote] It's kinda hard to see them being the same spartan as the Chief when they're smaller than Jorge. You can say he's just a really tall Spartan 3, but than every Elite is taller than you. And you know then they're not the same Spartans when the Chief is about the same height as the Elites and Nobel Team isn't. So there's some other Spartan on your team that you know nothing about. So why have 2 different Spartans when you can only have one type? [quote]7. It's made abundantly clear in Halo 2 (when the Covenant really start getting developed as characters) that the whole entire reason for fighting humanity is based on religious reasoning and that continues in Halo 3.[/quote] But it doesn't tell you why they started attacking humanity because of them. You know it's religious reasons, but nothing about why they're religious reasons.
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Edited by OrderedComa: 1/16/2014 5:22:16 AM1. Nothing in the game or the game manual explicitly says that the Longsword is a bomber as far as I remember, and even if it [i]is[/i] referred to as a bomber that does not automatically equate to "can't get anywhere on it's own". The majority of the audience is not going to sit there and assume "this must function based exactly how things do here in reality and with the exact same limitations" when looking at Sci-fi. Unless it is explicitly stated or shown somewhere, the majority are going to assume everything is more advanced. And just because it travels on the ship would not automatically mean it can't fly around the cosmos on its own power. Look at the starfighters and such in Star Wars, they're all carried around and into battle by the larger ships and dock on them when not in use, and yet the majority of them (like X-Wings, Y-Wings, Jedi Starfighters and Interceptors, Darth Vader's model of Tie Fighter, etc.) can all go whizzing about the galazy through hyperspace on their own without the need of a transport ship. And regarding being picked up, (this is operating off the supposition that the Longsword [i]is[/i] able to jump all about on its own), with something like Slipspace travel, one doesn't need to know exactly where they are in order to get where they want to go. It's not like being dropped into the middle of a town you've never been to before and then trying to get home from there. 4. Wrong. Reach does not talk about Spartan IIs or IIIs, Noble are only ever referring to as Spartans. Nothing at all in the game indicates or infers that there are different classes or generations of the Spartans. So no, it's not clear that there are more or different sets. And considering that Master Chief is not in the game (aside from the cryo tube cameo, which doesn't really count or serve a purpose with what we're talking about), there is no way for fans to compare the sizes of Chief and Jorge. And even if they could, humans are all different sizes and heights, seeing a measly [i]two[/i] Spartans that are taller than the others we've seen is not going to make people thing that they're different groups or classes. (the Elites are also taller than Chief actually, btw) 5. Being a super soldier tells you [i]exactly[/i] what a Spartan is...it's not exactly rocket science or hard to figure out. If you had only the games to go off of why would you think he's the last Spartan or what would you think explains that? Oh I don't know, maybe the fact that humanity has almost been driven to extinction and is losing a 30+ year against genocidal aliens hellbent on the complete and total annihilation of every single human in existence. You know, there's this wonderful little thing called common sense, and working things out for yourself based off the evidence. All [i]good[/i] stories operate off that basic premise that their viewers are not complete morons and can work things out for themselves without the writer having to hold their hand the whole entire time and every step of the way explaining each and every little detail.
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1. You can't say "try to use common sense" for rationalizing things that aren't explained and then try to argue that the Longsword isn't just a bomber because it was never stated. Using common sense we know that there isn't any way in hell it is going to have enough fuel to get back to earth (or anywhere). Assuming,assuming, assuming; which is your modus operandi. Just because you automatically assume everything to be advance does not mean everybody else will. That is generalize and you literally have nothing to show for it because that is your opinion. It wasn't shown in the Game but Longswords and Pelicans do not carry slipspace drives by standard design. Which is why Both Chief and cortana knew they were screwed if they didn't think of something. Again, Explained in the novels and not the games. 4.Other than the Fact Jorge looks older and is a lot bigger than the others. You also have the cinematic where Jorge is [b]clearly[/b] acting different around Halsey than the others, not to mention he tries looking for her in orbit. So using "common sense" you can infer that the two have a relationship unlike the other spartans on the team. What is that? He is a Spartan II and the others are not. 5. So i guess the word "sun" tells you everything about it right? What about the word "water"? You just instantly know everything once you hear the word? Notice how you said "spartan" and [b]Spartan II[/b]. Because nothing in the games explains what a spartan is or clarifies that john is a spartan II. Where was it ever said in the main trilogy that they had been fighting the covenant for 30 years? Where was it said they wanted to exterminate all the humans? Was it ever explained [b]why[/b] they want to kill humans? Or are we just going to use "common sense" [assume] that it is just because they are aliens? That isn't correct. Your "common sense" is just ridiculous assumptions that you back up by talking about other universes rather than supporting yourself with in-universe examples. Shows us where in the games it [b]tells[/b] you what a super solider is. [b]Show[/b] us where it was stated, in-game, that the Humans have been fighting the covenant for 30 years. Do not explain with your own reasoning. simply quote dialogue from the main trilogy talking about it. That is what everybody else has been talking about in this sub thread. [quote] All [i]good[/i] stories operate of that basic premise that their viewers are not completely morons[/quote] Yet bungie didn't show aliens on both side of the covenant civil war because "it would confuse the players". [quote]every step of the way explaining each and every little detail.[/quote] Yes, because explaining [b]why[/b] the covenant want to exterminate us would have been so terribly hard to do. You love to exaggerate things. Explaining the [b]main premise or important plots of a story[/b] is not explaining "every little detail". That is what LoTR's does by spending 10 pages talking about a friggin blade of grass and the depth of it's color.
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Edited by Grey101: 1/14/2014 8:34:38 PMBefore this goes further i will state there isn't any attitude within my posts. [quote]No, the other Halo games could stand completely alone from the extended universe.[/quote] Not true seeing as majority of the known universe stems several additions. ILOVEBEES Conversations of the universe-Halo 2 The Halo 2 documentary 0going over elements that are canon but had to be cut from the game The Graphic novel IRIS The Beasturium-Halo 3 The Halo 3 Documentary So that isn't true. Which is why ten years later we have people [b]seriously[/b] Arguing that John is the last spartan II, because you do not see any others. The spartans were never explained, Johnson being a spartan I was never touched on, The covenant's war on humanity was [b]never[/b] touched on,etc The Spartan IIIs are more understood than the Spartan IIs by the general community because there was a game surrounding them. We have still yet to witness fred,linda, or kelly in a game. [quote]Halo 4 is built entirely around the EU which is something you should never do. [/quote] This is an FPS game. Can you point me to some FPS games that explain nearly everything about that universe within the games? I don't. Time spitters did a good job but there were still plenty of questions. Even then, it's not a serious universe. Red Faction does a decent job but again, so much unexplained. I cannot think of a single FPS universe that has had several games and explained nearly everything within them. I don't understand what the aversion to reading is either. Games are limited by their hardware which isn't true for the novels. If we didn't have novels whatsoever our best bet would be cinematics, which do not cover a fraction of the universe. There is so much that we would never know if halo was limited to games and only games. Lets also factor in that people don't want a game every two years. So every 3-5 years we get a new addition to the canon which is going to be severely limited. That isn't something you should do. [quote]I'm betting that a large portion of the fan base has never read any of the novels and has no care to.[/quote] There are plenty of people that do and do not read the books. Just because people don't because [b]they do not want to read[/b] doesn't mean the games should be over saturated. Likewise just because people read the books doesn't mean that every little event from the novel needs to be covered. [quote]They didn't have to before, why should they be forced to now just to have a coherent plot?[/quote] So we should continue the degrading of the integrity of the universe because, once again, of the crappy community? Your statement is confusing, you want the games to explain everything yet feel "forced" to read a novel to further understand. You do not think people will feel like the story is being pushed down their throats if everything was in the games? It's just like the LoTR novels. I was reading an excerpt and for [b]several pages[/b] the narrative just talked about [b] a blade of grass.[/b]. There was a section in american psycho where he just talks on and on about ;b'his crappy music[/b]. It won't work in a game that is exactly what a movie is for or another game genere.
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Using only information given in the original trilogy: Explain Why are the a covenant attacking, and where did the Spartans come from, and why can't they make more of them? But every single one of the plot points in Halo 4 can be explained with only information presented with Halo 4 except perhaps the Covenant, though spartan ops gives enough hints. A more detailed explanation is found in the books, which is exactly what they're for.
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The terminals do a good enough job
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Edited by Axdinosaurx: 1/14/2014 7:59:45 PMThe [u]hidden terminals[/u] should supplement the story, not be required to understand it. Also they aren't even in the game since you have to go to waypoint to see them.
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It is in the game and they aren't difficult to find. You have to understand that there are plenty of people that don't care about the story and you have to know how much to implement without oversaturating. The cutscene with the librarian says it clearly "[i]but the Didact refused to yield our Mantle of Responsibility.[/i]. That cinematic wraps the motives of The Didact up well. I will once again mention that none of the Driving plot elements were explained in the original trilogy. So you can't argue that you shouldn't have to read the books to understand when you have been doing so for ten years now. When i went to pick up my copy of halo 4 there was a question pertaining to the insurrectionist that nobody could answer because they didn't know of them. Which is alarming seeing as they are an important plot of the lore but alas it was never fully established. The only game to bring up the innies was reach by tricking you into thinking you were actually going to fight them. That is the only thing in the "main game". I think the datapads brought them up as well but it isn't any where in the direct narrative for you to understand who they are and what their motivations are.
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I found them just fine you tube has them too
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I never said they were hard to find, my point is that an [u]easter egg[/u] shouldn't be something you use to explain your main plot. Especially when that easter egg is disconnected from the game almost entirely.
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In regards to halo 4 the terminals are not an easter egg and apart of the experience. Everything is canon. Chief's interaction with terminals was documented in either the forerunner saga or evolutions. I know that the reports on waypoint bring up the terminals being found on the ark as well, if that wasn't the original source. They have stated several times that they ran out of space to put the terminals on the disc. same with Theater and other elements left out. This goes into the [b] hardware limitations[/b] of creating an expansive universe on a platform.
