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2/13/2013 8:28:44 PM
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Just another thing to add to his list of blatantly stupid ideas and proof that he has no understanding of economics.
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  • Edited by Ghostvirus: 2/14/2013 3:52:34 AM
    This is a good thing for: minimum wage employees in firms with high bargaining power over labor markets like Walmart , and bad for a presently unknown number of people whose economic productivity isn't worth nine dollars who will lose their job, and it is bad for consumers WHEN competition has resulted in some of the reduced labor cost, of large companies with high bargaining power, to pass down to the consumer surplus. Fun fact number 1: Minimum wage was originally implemented in the United States to prevent immigrants and ethnic Americans to under bid the wages of white Americans, temporarily taking their share of the available jobs (before reduced labor costs and increased consumer base helped buoy new demand, and new jobs). By most accounts it worked. To be entirely fair however, it's likely this whole policy will have negligible effects all around. It's not at all difficult to get a job well above minimum wages before you even graduate from high school. I'll concede that I don't have a comprehensive paper to defer to on this subject, but it is my naive observation that most employers that rely heavily on minimum wage employees tend to also have high bargaining power in labor markets, and they are extracting huge producer surpluses. I.E its unlikely this will result in unemployment or bankruptcy among companies. If you look at what happens in a small town when Walmart arrives, it basically cannibalizes the low skill, retail sector market in the town. Which then turns the low skill retail sector job market into a single buyer market. Its only really in situations like this, that you really ever see a high prevalence of minimum wage jobs to begin with in the economy. So yes, there is a tendency for minimum wages to lead to higher prices, and higher unemployment, but this is a general statement, and there are exceptions. I think it is entirely possible to have a minimum wage that is: 1. higher than what it is now, 2. Low enough that most of the affected wages were lower than the new minimum in the first place, because of inequality of bargaining power rather than anything fundamental like low productivity or low labor demand. 3. That largely affects the producer surplus, without causing a blow sufficient enough to significantly impact investment. IF these three things could be accomplished, this would be the best thing for the public good. Minimum wage increases are not a free lunch, and you're going to have to make some trade offs, but ultimately there are good reasons to justify a minimum wage, and there are good reasons to think its something that requires intelligent optimization. I don't know where the ideal minimum wage is, but I highly doubt it is below nine dollars. I could be wrong, but even if I am, I still can't even begin to make sense of some of the hyperbole in this thread. Another point to make is that this isn't even necessarily a minimum wage increase: it's more or less a minimum wage upkeep. Real minimum wages have been dropping about 2% every year with inflation. Real minimum wages would probably still be lower than they were a few decades ago. People who think this will collapse the economy are about as uninformed as people who think minimum wages can't create and sustain some unemployment or increase some prices. In any event this is probably more of a gesture to appeal to the democrat political base, rather than anything that will push the economy in any direction. * Lol @ People that blame business cycles on particular political parties or presidents.

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  • Because the GOP were so genius at economics, that they nearly destroyed the country permanently? Obama got elected to FIX the economy. And you have the nerve to BLAME him instead? WOW!

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  • Blaming the GOP in this instance is just deflecting his point.

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  • "Blaming" and stating facts, are not the same thing.

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  • In this case, they are. Because the GOP is in many respects responsible for our economic predicament. However, it's rather irrelevant to the original point he was making, which is that Obama's plan is stupid.

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  • So doing NOTHING is your "idea"? You sound like a perfect candidate for the GOP.

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  • I never said that, you miserable idiot. If you honestly want to help our economy, you will keep the minimum wage as is, create incentives for corporate expansion, and wait until the economy bounces back up to increase the minimum wage. And even then, it would be a gradual increase to allow our market economy to adapt to the changes.

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  • You are not even paying attention AT ALL! The DOW is at the highest level in HISTORY. What is YOUR definition of "bounce back?" You know NOTHING about economics, yet you want to steer the national economy? Absolutely AMAZING!

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  • [quote]The DOW is at the highest level in HISTORY.[/quote] First off, that implies that the DOW is the sole indicator for economic vitality and integrity, which it is not. Yes, I will admit, this is a very good sign. A great one, in fact, but let's see stay that high for the next couple quarters. Furthermore, if we wish to keep the DOW that high, let's also NOT raise the minimum wage. [quote]What is YOUR definition of "bounce back?"[/quote] When we finally hit 5%+ growth in a year and under 5% unemployment is when I'd say we are back to normal. Of course, there are a variety of other indicators that signal towards economic health as well. [quote]You know NOTHING about economics, yet you want to steer the national economy[/quote] I know more than you, considering your idiotic statements throughout this entire thread, I question if you are even out of middle school.

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  • George Bush had the same economic prescriptions for "growth" that you do. He was "supply side" all the way. We all know how that story ends. Not gonna happen again buddy.

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  • Supply side isn't a silly economic policy, though (in most cases). The problem with Bush is he cut income taxes during not one, but TWO wars, which completely f--ked up our national debt and economy in general. Then, you had the artificial housing market propped up by the government, which creates a market whose foundation is made of jenga blocks. There are, of course, other things as well. My supply side extends only to corporate taxes, personal taxes I'm willing to raise in certain cases (now is one of those cases)

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  • No point in talking to that guy.

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  • Your ideals of "normal" are based on fantasy, not history.

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  • I'm sure when OP said pseudo economists you were one of those who came to mind.

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  • Because you understand economics WAAAAAAY better than Obama does

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  • Obviously I do, considering I didn't add to the debt, keep unemployment around 8 percent, ruin the job market throughout 4 years, and propose a moronic healthcare bill that doesn't even factor in the concept of supply and demand. Just because you're uneducated doesn't mean everyone else is.

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  • I guess you're smarter than everyone in Congress too, given that they were the ones who did everything you mentioned. Stop pretending like you know everything because based off of your missed placed blame and use of rather basic and flawed arguments you clearly don't know anything.

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  • And your post was nothing but random rambling and addressed nothing I said.

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  • Edited by HHArcum: 2/13/2013 11:15:33 PM
    Only because you edited out the statement I addressed, my post was addressing your over sized ego and cut and pasted talking points.

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  • Of course you didn't, you was never in a position to do that.

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  • I think it's funny that people think that the President of the United States and his staff have a lower understanding of economics than a high school kid who has taken an introductory economics course.

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  • I think it's funny how people just blindly put faith into someone because of a job title. It could just be me being crazy but I like to do a little bit of research into things before just blindly trusting what someone says; especially someone with an agenda.

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  • The President has economic advisers that work for him; people that have spent their careers working in economics. If raising the minimum wage was going to doom the country, don't you think one of said advisers would point it out to him if it were such basic knowledge?

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  • I absolutely think they would point it out. If he has an agenda (which he does) do you think he's going to give all the facts or just the ones that support his agenda? Do you think he's going to give the press his economic advisers notes and reports or do you think he's going to pick and choose which facts support his case the best?

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  • So he's just going to advocate policies that will doom the lives of 300 million people?

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