{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
Edited by Truthiness_Inc:
7/14/2018 7:17:16 PM
21
You miss the point completely. People will always search out the advantage and then...take advantage. This is exactly the point of flanking the enemy or going alone to one side of the map to deny heavy for the other team as well as teamshotting. But if you can't kill fast enough and then in turn heal fast enough after an engagement the advantage of flanking flies right into the toilet. This is why you only see flanks with heavy weapons or 2 players flanking at the same place, and tamshotting everywhere.
Now if you make TTK faster, then a flanking player can catch a group unaware, kill a player, and try to reconvene with their team. The way it is now you flank and shoot a guy in the back and by the time he's dead everyone on his team is shooting you because over a full second is ages when there is a gun in everyone's hand.
English
-
I don't miss the point. The idea of this thread is to have discussion. I just don't feel differentiating between flanking and grouping to be fair. They are both team tactics and to say one is good and one is bad is stupid. No matter the ttk they are both going to happen. Are people going to complain when they die in even less time than they do now to it? You point about flanking is taken. However I don't see this making that drastic of a deal as you make it. Sure you may get the kill but you're still dead once the team turns to you. The o lyrics time flanking like that makes a big difference is with power weapons because they make the team spread out.
-
[quote]I just don't feel differentiating between flanking and grouping to be fair. They are both team tactics and to say one is good and one is bad is stupid.[/quote]No to create a situation where one is never a good idea over the other is bad and stupid.[quote]No matter the ttk they are both going to happen.[/quote]False, quicker TTK means quicker flank engagements and a better chance for the flanker to succeed without dying to a hail of gunfire before getting a single kill. You still miss the point. Faster kills means less time for players to react. This means skill wins out in the end as lower skill players won't react fast enough. Faster kill time also helps with peeking on weapons with single bullet fire like hand cannons and scout rifles. It would cut down on players being able to steamroll with shotties and fusions as it will be easier to kill them when you kill faster. As is the TTk is so slow a guy can walk into the room and blast everyone before they can kill him as 1 second ttk is a lifetime in pvp. I mean it's not like 1 shot get's any faster so lowering TTK can only even the odds a bit more in terms of the gap between heavy and regular weapons.
-
[quote] No to create a situation where one is never a good idea over the other is bad and stupid[/quote] Unfortunately so such situation exists. So moot. The rest of your post makes sense simple from a ballistics point if view. I repeat again, as long as the game doesn't become a twitch shooter along with return of specials. Your taking me completely wrong. It's not that I don't want to [u]not[/u] favor skill, it's that I do my don't believe lower ttk to fix that.
-
[quote]Unfortunately so such situation exists. So moot.[/quote]Isn't that situation the very focus of this conversation? When I can fire on a person for almost a full second in a 1v1 engagement but can't heal for another 10 seconds there is no reason to try anything but sitting like a lump next to my mates and fire like an idiot down the hallway. This is a boring and low skill scenario that plays out constantly in crucible.
-
Then the ttk isn't the crux of the problem. It's healing and abilities. This is what almost every conversation I have comes to. Not really ttk by itself but abilities.
-
Edited by Truthiness_Inc: 7/15/2018 3:02:18 AMAbilities have even more problems than guns but they have clearly stated they are not changing TTK or recharge speeds on powers. They also have clearly stated/shown they are open to TTk changes on guns. Ergo we are picking a battle we can win. Faster TTK on guns ONLY isn't ideal, but it's a start towards getting our capabilities back. Gaming is about power fantasy. This game makes you feel weak without your teammates. We can feel powerful with AND without our teammates we don't have to have one or the other.
-
I personally feel powerful without my teammates if I'm on top of my game. I don't need lower ttk to feel that way regardless if it helps others. I don't rely on game mechanics to feel strong on a game. That's on me. Mayne this is the philosophical difference here.
-
Edited by Truthiness_Inc: 7/15/2018 3:14:36 AMPhilosophical differences? Bungie shows the numbers. 70% of solo matches lost. This is not debatable. Solos are destined to lose. In D1 TTK was faster across the board and solo players were more successful. Why do you have such an issue with changing this? How would you be hurt by a change that made things more fair for solo players match to match?
-
[quote] How would you be hurt by a change that made things more fair for solo players match to match?[/quote] Because I don't agree that it does. At least according to my playstyle. That percentage doesn't say anything of significance. Solo players are always at a disadvantage. All I see is that This all circles back to people wanting easier 1v2. It's hilarious. Whaa I can't kill 2 people so make it easier. Bungie can't do 2 things at once. Right not people complain that the playboy too passive. If they over compensate and make this game where aggressive is the only valid playstyle and people have no reaction time at all I may just go back to Battlefield. Just like anyone else I'm not going to play a game I don't like. I'm sure going to be vocal about my exit though.
-
[quote]Solo players are always at a disadvantage.[/quote]Ok so you agree. Let's work with that. Nobody is saying they want to wreck 2 people at once. They're saying there is no reason not to stand shoulder to shoulder. It isn't that people want to be able to shit on whole teams they don't want to be forced to hold hands with random players that won't even bother to turn their mics to teamspeak.
-
[quote] Nobody is saying they want to wreck 2 people at once.[/quote] Are we on the same forums? This is exactly what people say [u]all the time[/u]! I don't even have to quote anything. It's all over threads like this. [quote]...they don't want to be forced to hold hands with random players that won't even bother to turn their mics to teamspeak[/quote] Lol. Now the excuse is teaming with randos? C'mon man you can do better than that. Stop reaching and convince me that lowering the TTK is nothing more than to make 1v2+ easier. You've made good points but nothing to really convince me otherwise. I'm going to keep saying it. When Bungie over compensates and puts pvp is a complete reverse I'm going to laugh as everyone is bitching.
-
[quote]Lol. Now the excuse is teaming with randos?[/quote]Again you miss the point. It isn't playing with randoms. Nobody opts into teamspeak, as I've said more than once. You're quite the obtuse fellow. I believe I will leave it there since clearly you have made up your mind and don't have the capacity to see past your "it's all excuses" bullshit. The funny thing is you don't even seem to know anything about FTMM...Try google searching "Destiny 2 FTMM". Tell me what you come up with.
-
No need son. Takes onto account the size and skillset in your fire team and adjust the MM for the solo queue. This was to mitigate the complete stock curb stomp. What's your point exactly?
-
Edited by Truthiness_Inc: 7/15/2018 2:01:37 PMMy point? My point is you're arguing a done deal. They already are agreeing with solos. Maybe a refresher? This part in particular...[quote]We don’t want to try to completely nullify the benefit of team-play, so our initial values are conservative and can (and will) be tuned[/quote]Can and will be tuned. You can talk all the shit you want about solos but at the end of the day you're saltier about this whole thing than they are aren't you? This is so important to you that they don't get a fair shake that you will argue it do the death from even acting like you don't think they even have a problem to admitting it then acting like finding a solution to the problem isn't needed. You just want to pubstomp don't you?
-
Edited by X-LoganX: 7/15/2018 11:07:24 PMNot good enough to pubstomp. Mainly because I'm a pubber not a clanner and I play mainly solo. You just keep reaching and coming up blank empty. Whatever man. At the end of the day I just don't want this game to turn into something I'm going to hate.
-
None of us do.
-
Edited by X-LoganX: 7/16/2018 1:06:17 AMMy perception is that what most people seem to want is what I don't though. Hence this conversation. Does that make me wrong in some way?
-
Ummm you have 0 likes on your post.
-
This post has nothing to do with that. Looks like I'm not the one who's missed my point. You may want to read it all again and the other post where it started. This post has nothing to do with what I like or don't like. It has to do with my perception of this community's take on ttk and teamshooting. It only evolved into that on our discussion. Man you got lost along the way.
-
[quote]This post has nothing to do with what I like or don't like. It has to do with my perception of this community's take on ttk and teamshooting. It only evolved into that on our discussion.[/quote]Oh but your OP says so very much about what you do and don't like. It's incredibly biased. Every valid point I make you counter with feelings, then I bring up the fact that Bungie has actually introduced a matchmaking system that factors in fireteam's stats and you change the subject. I'll ask again, what part of your experience will be harmed by taking solo disadvantage into account in matchmaking?
-
[quote]Oh but your OP says so very much about what you do and don't like. It's incredibly biased.[/quote] Man. You keep reaching for things to put me and my opinion down. Still failing along the way. No it's not biased. Don't use big words unless you know what they mean. It's about my observations and perceptions about Teamshooting, TTK , and the community. My observations, perceptions, and opinion only pertain to me and I was applying them to the general community and how I'm perceiving their postings. There's no bias there other than they are my perceptions and opinions. So does that mean you're being biased too? Probably not right? [quote]Every valid point I make you counter with feelings...[/quote] So I can't post with feelings now? This stance is ridiculous. I'm concerned that this game will become something I may not want to play so of course I'm emotional. To say that I can't do that is silly. [quote]then I bring up the fact that Bungie has actually introduced a matchmaking system that factors in fireteam's stats and you change the subject.[/quote] Hmm...Changed the Subject...meanwhile my original subject wasn't about Solo queuing or Matchmaking. Seems you brought that in. It's fine because I believe you were relating it to teamshooting and ttk (for the Solo player) but that was not [u]my[/u] subject change. [quote]I'll ask again, what part of your experience will be harmed by taking solo disadvantage into account in matchmaking?[/quote] You're asking an obvious question that I won't answer because you're looking for me to say something negative. Any enhancement to the crap MM they have has the potential for good. This thread however is not about changes to MM. It's about changes to TTK and how it affects teamshooting AND about a weird dichotomy about what some say is ok or not ok about teamshooting. You're attempting to overlap changes to solo queuing and such as they relate to teamshooting and effective solo play. I get it but it's still a tangent.
