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Edited by CDT DYLAN M:
5/29/2016 11:24:52 PM
12
Honestly, some of his arguments fall a little flat. The argument of "but you're still alive" is as weak as "but you can revive yourself," because you can only take one hit and, as you would still have the warlock's attention, would be unable to do any of what he listed off. He also did not mention perks that improve firebolts, though it looks like he used them to test with. The wambo combo is also not comparable to firebolts because, even though it is op in their own right, it is both the hunter's melee and grenade.
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The combo is fast and both parts have the same range, which is limited only to how far your character can throw. The argument of "but you're still alive" is not quite as weak as that, since being alive allows you to control, at least partially, the spot where you die. If you die you did it where you can be revived. If you don't die you have the chance to recuperate and essentially waste the Warlock's grenade charge so long as your brief absence is not the catalyst which gets your team killed. Note that this argument is exclusive to Trials of Osiris, which is the most competitive mode and therefore the most important mode to keep balanced.
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The combo, though it shouldn't be as effective as it currently is, does use both the hunter melee and grenade. The "but you're still alive" argument is weak in his explanation. He says that you could still shoot at people, which would almost guarantee your death, or run and hide. However, this allows the warlock to push and still get the kill. As you said, it only allows you to control where you die. But it the argument is only exclusive to one mode, is it really a good argument? Also, he only compares it to other grenade types, which contrary to what he says, can be lived thru. This is even shown in his test with the lighting grenade, which he lists by name. He does not, however, compare it to the other bolt class grenade, the arcbolt.
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The combo should probably be nerfed by lowering the speed at which each component is thrown, or the speed at which you can throw the second after the first. Still being able to shoot is useful, as it can sometimes secure kills that, if you'd been hit by about half of the other grenades, you wouldn't have been able to. Any argument is a good one when considering the state of the game mode considered most important by the competitive player base, since non-competitive players tend to not really care about the state of play so long as they're able to use the weapons and skills they enjoy. Certain grenades can only be lived through if you avoid them and even then most will damage you at least halfway if the thrower has half decent aim. The firebolt grenade can be lived through regardless and if you dodge it well enough you can avoid damage altogether. Furthermore, the state of the arcbolt is largely irrelevant when both the flux and skip grenades deal more than enough damage to make up for it. Just because a grenade includes auto-aim does not make it good. One double-tap of a button is all it takes to ignore the damage completely, regardless of whether it was deployed evasively.
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The thing is, though, is that being able to shoot could also do nothing at all, all the warlock has to do is hit you once, if they already haven't and back off, which is an argument that applies to pretty much any grenade. My main problem is that the grenade, with subclass talents, creates a dilemma similar to the old thorn. You are correct about the argument and the competitive player base, but it also trickles into the non-competitive players and has repercussions as it becomes harder to use the weapons you want in semi-competitive modes, namely the 3v3 and rumble game types. Grenades are alway fickle, though. You can live thru almost any type, even those that you can't evade. Sticky grenades (magnetic and fusion) don't always guarantee a kill just like tripmines. Arcbolts are still relevant when compareing grenades, as both occupy the bolt class grenade, meaning that they work similarly in mechanics. In addition, it also applies in its similarity to solar grenades, as both are rarely seen (however arcbolts are seen more than solars), which may suggest that bungie needs to take a look at the classes in general and rebalance at least some of the grenades
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Lowering the speed for throwing items is the only reasonable fix I could think of, I never felt the wombo combo was that OP cause you can still get away from it
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Not if they land it right on you. If you're not already moving you can't escape it at all unless you've got an evasive skill. Luckily for me I'm a shotgunner, so I'm always moving, but still.
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If it lands directly on you then yeah you're dead, but in my experience most people who wombo combo can't either hit you directly with both smoke and nade or can't land both smoke and nade in the same place, I'm also mainly a shotgunner ;)
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Edited by lilithlissandra: 5/31/2016 8:30:38 AMIf people can't manage the combo properly then they're not even worth a glance. You always want to balance the most effective uses of every given item. If a man cannot wield a weapon to its maximum efficiency, why should he be the deciding factor as to whether it is overpowered? Side note: That is my new status. Edit: Nevermind, it's too long. Damn.
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Rip the status dream T_T
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Rip in pizza. Now I'm racking my brain for a way to shorten it and still make sense. I don't think this is a healthy way to spend my time at 3 A.M. but whatev.
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Nah perfectly healthy and understandable!
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Nevermind, I got it! Well, I got a kind-of fix. There's also a motto, so I can just put it there!
