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Edited by EC 437:
10/9/2015 1:48:58 PM
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Even tho I am a huge Star Trek fan (especially of the Borg in particular), Oryx and his Taken win this.
While the Borg's ability to adapt would work against a race that uses physical laws like the Fallen and Cabal. Taken run on literal space magic and use a completely different set of rules. The closest we have seen something similar to the Borg going against the Taken was in the Book of Sorrows when The Vex launched an assault on Oryx throne world aboard the Dreadnaught. Even with them replicating the Hive magic and the ability to plan for nearly every possible out come via time travel, they [i]still[/i] were taken by Oryx like it was nothing.
The only known thing that cannot be taken by Oryx are beings directly created by the traveler (guardians), I hate to say it but until I see/read about a race that can go against this without the Traveler, I'm inclined to believe any race without some form of space magic could effectively go against Oryx.
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This is the reason I think the Taken would win. It also helps that the Borg doesn't seem to be able to adapt kinetic energy. So bullets will work on them just fine. (I'm not that knowledgable with ST. This was explained to me and I did see a few episodes with the Borg.)
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What about another next generation enemy? Let's say The Q. They are so advanced they're basically multidimensional gods.
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Edited by EC 437: 10/9/2015 2:40:04 PMI believe the Q could win against Oryx, his ability to Take things seems to be limited to beings bound to physical laws and the Q from what I remember are not bound to those laws. too soon to say if they could go against the darkness itself tho. Considering Oryx took only a fraction of it's power from Akka who was a agent of the Darkness itself.
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Space magic is just advance science.... as real as warp drives :)
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While this is true in most cases, as it stands right now Destiny is the exception because as far as I am aware of there is no real scientific way to explain or calculate the effectiveness the space magic seen in the game/ described in the lore. If I'm wrong please tell me so, and point it out to me. I am looking for effective way for a race not using something like the warp from Warhammer or the Force like Star Wars to go against Oryx.
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I wasn't clear maybe so to give an example... If I was borg my strategy would be to blow up the sun and evaporate whole of oryx and his horde along with billions of other life forms and solar system. they have the science to do it (nova bomb if i recall correctly) so magic or no magic it's just a scientific problem. yes i agree there is no akin to force or warp in this world but remember that borg did manage to assimilate a lot of telekinetic and telepathic species with vast powers somehow (although never saw in episoide in action, just verbal stories)
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Edited by EC 437: 10/9/2015 6:48:17 PMApologies for the long reply, was busy at college. [quote]I wasn't clear maybe so to give an example... If I was borg[/quote] before we continue I would like to say let's not insert ourselves to the roles of ether side, it makes the argument on ether side extremely bias it would be like me saying "well if I was Oryx I would take the Borg collective mind that way the Borg couldn't retaliate.." You get the idea, let's use the sources that are given. [quote] my strategy would be to blow up the sun and evaporate whole of oryx and his horde along with billions of other life forms and solar system. they have the science to do it (nova bomb if i recall correctly) so magic or no magic it's just a scientific problem.[\quote] Both the Ecumene and Harmony have tried similar tactics (not particular blow up a sun but very similar) in the Books of Sorrow and failed for two main reasons: First part of the Hive worship of the Darkness is making war on each other often times destroying moons, planets, ect. Killing themselves over and over again to make themselves more powerful marketing the very effective against that kind of warfare it intact it was one these "wars" against one of his Sisters that saved one of his lives from an Ecumene attack that destroyed a world he was on. Second is that Oryx like most of the Hive Pantheon cannot truly be killed anywhere except their true throne world (and even this may not be the case because Oryx gave both of his Sisters a "true" Death and brought them back). Oryx died many times against the Ecumene and still finished them of in the end. It is [i]much[/i] more than just a scientific problem. [quote]yes i agree there is no akin to force or warp in this world[/quote] Which is the main problem. At least with the Warp or the Force there would a good chance to be combat space magic (more with Warp because it is the most similar). [quote]but remember that borg did manage to assimilate a lot of telekinetic and telepathic species with vast powers somehow (although never saw in episoide in action, just verbal stories)[/quote] I am aware of this, keep in mind I am a huge Star Trek fan far more than I am of Destiny. But again Oryx power is not based on telekinesis or telepathy it is (at least at this point) literally space magic. Space magic that he took by killing Akka, the Worm God of Secrets which was an agent of the Darkness. Note this does not mean nothing in Star Trek could not beat Oryx, the Q for example I believe could beat him. Also keep in mind Destiny's lore is not complete, as we learn more about the darkness and are to better gage it's power (like the force and Warp) we may find a way for the Borg to beat the Darkness and by default Oryx. I hope this was helpful, if you would like to more about Destiny's lore I would highly suggest reading the Grimoire cards (we all know Destiny has a very poor story so far). You can read all the cards [url=http://www.ishtar-collective.net]here[/url] if you are interested.
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Awesome mate. I would agree with you but would debate just to keep the conversation interesting. I wish there was a DLC for this to find out the real winner :)
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No problem man. Wanted to make a I more logical/not as bias discussion that was more than just the angry Destiny vs Star Trek fanboys posts already prevalent in this thread. I hope that I delivered on that front. I also hope in the future when Destiny's lore is complete I can revisit this topic to see who would truly win.
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That would be nice. The interesting thing that came out was mention of Q whom I totally forgot about (they aren't bad guys truly in the series, kind of annoyances I think) but to thing of it they are kind of omnipotent who have the ability to exist in multiple space, time and dimensions at any given time and can change the universal gravitational constant at will, surely taken will have a tough time beating that... :) but that's a different chain of discussion. I will have to find a better comparison now (more sci-fi catchup for me)
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I believe the Q have most certainly the best shot of defeating Oryx. As I remember it they have no physical forms (but can manifest them if needed to enter the physical universe) which helps goes against Oryx's main advantage of taking. However as I said before to in this sub thread it's too early to tell if they could go against the Darkness itself. Remember Oryx got his power by taking it from Akka, the Worm God of secrets and it is supposedly a fraction of what the Darkness can do. We'll have to wait for more lore to come about the Darkness before that discussion can be reasonably made.
