not every idea gets followed through because they take time & effort (which is money), and they may not be well recieved nor well-functioning. initial ideas may have been rejected because trial implementations cost too much for too little of projected rewards (both financial and player-satisfaction). there are deadlines and priorities to consider, a delicate balance of the creation process. not everything is as sinister as you think bud. that's the whole point to these forums, OUR feedback. WE give ideas that we feel would improve not only our individual play quality, but possibly the entire player base as well. some are good, some are bad, CONSTRUCTIVE discussion is great. and besides, it takes a lot of effort (which is money) to provide extra content. would YOU want to do YOUR job for free to satisfy the customer? no, so dont demand such from Bungie.

So Destiny sets a record by being the game with the largest budget to date with years upon years and years of hard work and sweat pouring into the art, design, structure, story, and climax of this game with activisions deadline within piles of contracts and youre naive enough to think these people that mimicked so much of Halo are struggling with the thought and plausibility of world pvp CTF or zone control? Like its too difficult to manage for them? lol.... jesus you bleating sheep are hard to respond to sometimes. I've tried abundantly to optimistically accept this games release structure and direction by defending Bungie relentlessly with the constructive approach you want to read from the nay say-ers, you better believe i was in your shoes not too long ago. It hasnt hit you yet man, but sooner or later, if youre a true gaming enthusiast, youll see this is nagging monotony they gave us for the sake of money, NOT challenging repetition as it should be. But irresponsible feedback from a company with such a large fanbase brings these replies to justification and i will kick myself every September because it will remind me as an ex- bungie fan how disappointing the current gaming industry is. I'm converting to 343 industriism

actions speak louder than words. your still playing this game. how do the people that CREATED halo mimic it? is a younger sibling a mimic of the oldest? is Ocarina of Time a mimic of Link to the Past? (your defense of Bungie is far from relentless, by the way, since you've clearly yielded.) I AM a true gaming enthusiast, and funny enough, Destiny is what snared me back in! I didnt blindly jump into the Destiny hype, as NOTHING ever lives up to its hype. I got in a bit before black friday, when 360 released the demo. I played it through its entirrety and LOVED it. My friends played WoW so from my second-hand knowledge of MMOs I knew exactly what Destiny was and am never TRAITOROUSLY shocked, like some people, that this game has alot of grinding. repitition is repitition, regardless of what is being repeated. Bungie has been making countless changes and is constantly showing us they ARE listening. but this is a BIG game, with a BIG community of players, and ANY change WILL affect some of those players. its a delicate balance, NOT an individual appeasement. have you EVER tried to produce some sort of content for mass consumption? a board game? some music? a drawing? a story? Its hard. Im currently studying to become a profesional content producer, and Im learning that creating a big-budget game is FUDGING HARD AS TWO SEPIKS PRIMES! )its NEVER easy to do ANYTHING. do you know how much time and effort it took to animate a hunters cape? thats fudging crazy hard!) but! its not about any of that now, is it? its about how you dont fully enjoy this game that you've put hundreds of hours into and seemingly will continue to pour more into. because this game is just THAT bad that you continue to play it. [all seriousness, just answer me this: why are you still playing? its a simple answer; you either LIKE the game and keep on playing it, or you dont like it and return it. get your money back. there you go! end of discussion! and dont give me none of that "its past the seven day store return policy" yatta-yatta. if you played the game past that point, you decided you liked it. when I got Resident Evil 5, I returned it the next day. when I got CoD: MW3, I returned it the day after the next. like I said, actions speak LOUDER than wods.]

I'm am still playing this game, trying to feel like the $95 dollars I paid gets spent. Even with all these hours ive put into this game i have yet to feel like its worth the cost. Youre right! Actions would speak loudly but ive already paid for all this "content" and i since i bought this bundle package digitally, i cant return the game and get my money back. That doesnt mean im not spending less time each day on this game. I have defended bungie extensively, just obviously not in this thread nor do i defend them anymore at all unless people are being complete fools about a particular aspect of this game. My stand against this games direction will show but i choose to show it by not giving them any more money. I will do my best to collect every grimoire card (doubt ill be able to stomach the whole 9 yards) and then proceed to give my testimonial to anyone who is feeling let down by this game by showing empathy by giving this game every chance currently possible. So thats why i still play, and ill play HoW to see if any dramatic changes that are needed get implemented. The only thing ive yielded too is the amount of time ill be playing this, hell i dont even do bounty's anymore. Crucible and friends is the only reason i still log in. I didnt just say repetition, i said CHALLENGING repetition. If you are challenged by this games PvE then you arent as enthusiastic about gaming as i and so many that i know. This games grinding compared to WoW's grinding (Oh yes i did raid hardcore vanilla content on WoW as a teen and my guild and i reached the four horseman in naxx before TBC was released) in the beginning is SOOOOO far apart in difficulty and endurance. When WoW came out there was constant feedback being given to its community and in time we all helped make a game that now has had over 100 million people sign in and play it. Bungie thinks 3.2 million is something to rejoice about? Thats todays numbers when last month Destiny had 3.4 million people playing. This game is a joke thats dying out faster than i even thought and nothing about killing the computer mobs in it is difficult. CE's is a botched premature raid. Even when you do it legitimately its SOOOOOOOOOOOOO ez.. Hard mode or not and ill say it again, If you are challenged by the content currently then you arent as enthusiastic or capable as youre letting on to be. I have a feeling if i look at your stats i will be unimpressed and your stats will reflect Bungivision's capitalism and what i mean by that is, they created this game to be sold and loved by the person who cant critically think outside of the box. Two sepiks primes would be harder but it would still be a complete joke and very easily done. No my field doesnt require mass consumption but that doesnt mean i cant read or understand the development process of a game of which many company's go about it in a different way. Small detail like a cape might be a little hard but look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiDbv7nftM8 and go to 29:10 and watch how fast they put together that first moon area. And you think its really that difficult? lol these details they have made arent as difficult or as time consuming as you might think considering this game has had more money and time than any game in history, and you bet your ass there is more "place holders" in this game than actual current content and id willing to put a lot of money on that theory. i keep playing because it isnt all that bad, i can say the fps mechanics are flawless, and the crucible with friends is incredible, the looks and detail into armor and guns is remarkable... why can i not join up with 4 friends against 5 other people in a custom match setting for the sake of league competition? How can you not feel low balled by the fact we cant even have private games? Ill say it again and again, i keep playing because i have yet to feel like the 95 bucks has been spent and since i cant get my money back, i will do exactly what bungie asked of me and critic every inch and corner of this game even without being constructive because ive tried this approach with a calm and objective manner with no results. Feedback is feedback and the lack of transcendence from this company is just pathetic.

the two sepiks prime thing was a testicles metaphor. but I digress. now as for the refund, you probably could have gotten your 95 back if you made the right calls and complaints yatta-yatta. but I wont hold that against you, its a hassle that you dont want to bear, might as well make the most of it. and im glad that your trying to make a THOROUGH play through to give a THOROUGH critique. but it still sounds like your having fuuuuuuuun. maybe those friends and fun times were/are worth the $95? the challenge in repetition is doing it better everytime, weither by minutes our millaseconds. I grew up on arcade games so I know the deal. and yes, I do enjoy the challenge of stoping crotas soul within 4 minutes, as opposed to the 30 it took me my first time. I LIKE being able to go back to do a mission MUCH more efficiently than previous times, it shows that im getting better. and improvement is satisfying. now as for that construction video. you do know what a montage is, right? that little video is HIGHLY edited from what could be months of work. all of those little rocks and buildings and patterns placed/carved into the environment wasn't just there, they had to make it ALL. everything that you see "pasted" in was previously hand built by someone(s). it LOOKS simple and easy, but that was the point of the edit, to make themselves look good, because the point of the conference is to sell themselves. as an artist your ALWAYS trying to sell yourself as the best. like I said, Im currently studying to become a professional in such a field, and that video impressed me FAR more than it did you, because I understand the inner workings of the construction process. YOU are getting third hand and beyond knowledge of the construction process. IM getting FIRST hand knowledge straight from the people that DO the job! Im learning from the industry professionals, NOT reading an edited article written by a guy that spoke to a spokesperson that mitigated for an industry professional. you see how much YOUR knowledge gets filtered vs mine? now as for crucible, well I dont care about PVP at all, so I cant really say anything there. though I do agree that compared to Reach, its very lacking. and there is the real problem. we all cannot help ourselves in comparing Destiny to Reach. Destiny is a BRAND NEW IP! it wasnt meant to be a successor to anything, nor is it meant to be paralleled either, but it still is, we still do. yeah it would have been nice if it had private lobbies, but since this game has stat tracking it could possibly result in falsified numbers. look at how you made mention of checking out my stats, and how you are willing to base your judgement based on them. well if we had private matches then I could be a complete knob but still have a 50.0 K/D. now as for league play, yeah, that does sound lacking. it would sound like a bunch of fun to do, but im sure their may be some minor reason that none of us have considered that could affect balance. or there could be none. either way this is a big game, and it takes alot of time and effort to turn the gears. you said it yourself, it takes TIME. WoW wasnt the MMO beast it is now from vanilla, it continually evolved. how old is WoW now? how old is Destiny? not even half a year. theres growing pains, of that there is no doubt, but its nothing fatal. did you read the article about HoW and how it will be handled differently than TDB? Bungie ACKNOWLEDGED our complaints! Rome wasn't built overnight. finally, as for the money. from my understanding, alot of it was for marketing. do you understand how marketing works? I pay someone to put my logo on their everything and shove that everything down everybody's throat, and those everybody's get paid too. finally finally, most money =/= perfection.

No i cannot get my refund because of the hours ive spent. Ive tried twice to get a refund and both times i spoke to the highest person capable of hearing me out with no result, digital returns are based on the hours you play. So no, my money is lost in this game forever. I'm having fun with a few friends that are still playing and occasionally from a raid on tuesday but i would say its more bordem than fun at this point. The challenge shouldnt be deciphered by time of completion alone. There isnt any extra reward or record of your "timed" completion although i respect youre going to such limits to stay interested, maybe someone will read this and follow in your footsteps but im a competitive person. I want whatever im shooting at to put my wit to the test. I want endless waves of mobs that arent just sponge mobs but an extremity of mobs that keep you running and on your feet. The objective in more than half of these missions is to just kill things from the same slow spawning point until peter dinklage finishes his love making to doors and things alike. It sounds like youre in a fortunate position to be learning this stuff first hand but you dont know what im reading or who im having conversations with about game development. How could you know that i dont have several software engineers very close to me? You are right when it came to the moon video, it took months upon months of hard detail and time to put together the tools and strategy of making virtual land masses but once many of those objects are made, they are libel to be morphed, copied, pasted, and re-pasted. The time it took to make the actual pixels come together took much more time than just planting them on the screen sure, but these people have some of the best game design software in the world and you better believe they put it to the test during the abundance of time they had to make this thing. Marketing is expensive and necessary and just a helpful tip, it doesnt matter what your occupation is or what youre a professional at. We as human beings sell ourselves everyday in the way we live our lives and i have a full grasp of that. They probably spent way too much money on the marketing for this game instead of setting up more servers or hiring more people to come up with ideas to help this game prosper. Believe it or not WoW had so many less people buy into it at first compared to Destiny (probably the marketing paying off) but WoW's feedback team and development team collided with the community and the game reached the highest volume of human traffic the gaming world has ever seen. No stats and many other limitations would probably be necessary to have a private server and thats something worth talking about dont you think? Bungie has done a good job on addressing many of the real topical issues but once those have been addressed, there needs to be daily feedback for other ideas like heroic patrols! Yes they care about making a great game for us, but they have this arrogant approach of silence when it comes to ingenious ideas being flooded over these forums. The point of comparing wow to this game is that Blizzard responded to the community and even responded to the moronic ideas, but they stuck through the hot mess of idiots spouting terrible ideas around left and right and because of that interaction they made a game that will never be dismissed as a game that will die. Millions will always play wow because when you start off with good community management, the game and community thrives. Rome wasnt built over night lol Destiny has barely paved a road. The IP for Destiny has many of the same programming instructions as the games that Bungie has built. Halo and its success is what inspired them to make the game in the first place, doesnt everyone know that? The difference between you and i is one is competitive and striving to be the best in his favorite types of hobby and thats where he will find "fun" while the other just plays to have fun and doesnt care about stats or playing against something that can think for itself. I actually think its cool you do timed runs with these missions, that might actually be something i start doing, but to be honest it doesnt sound very fun... what am i going to do... tell my friends i finished a mission in such a timely fashion it should be impressive? Running faster and killing less so you can finish faster isnt the challenge many of us are looking for. Running around, through, above and below an abundance of mobs trying to kill you could be.

you make alot of fair points, im not trying to argue that. but tell me, what IS WoW's cost to play? they have initial cost of game, just like Destiny, and expansions, just like destiny, and monthly subscription just like.... oh wait, Destiny doesnt have us paying a monthly fee. WoW had a LOT more noticeable feedback because they NEEDED to. their monthly income was all necessary to keep their game alive, so they HAD to put resources in to quelling customer disdain, because that was a potential loss of cash revinue, all of which was necessary to maintain WoW. Destiny doesnt have us paying them regularly and therefore has less resources to commit to feedback resolution. and I suspect that if Destiny DID have a monthly subscription, THEN it would have been as Doom and Gloom as the neigh-sayers would have us believe. not to say they are not listening. they are, its just taking time to see it. once again, 5 MONTHS! its alright to feel a little undercut, sure. but dont be so shocked that something is'nt in the game that wasnt promised. in this day and age, we can see EXACTLY what ALL of a games content is. *sigh* my point is, nothing was a shocking betrayal, and this game is'nt "lacking" because it is what it is. YOUR not incompitent because you do not understand quantum physics, and IM not worthless because I do not know how to dance. yeah it would be cool if we could do those things, but we're not "lacking" because we dont.

Sure the revenue coming in from WoW was incredibly substantial compared to the money Bungie is pulling in but WoW had a 200 mil budget that eventually brought in 100 million people. Destiny's 500 million budget will never see 50 million people and thats a fact my friend. Some company's know the importance of talking to the consumer and making decisions based more on them while others think its better to stare at their own screens and make decisions about their game based on the numbers we as the consumer cant even see. Not saying thats a terrible way to approach fixing a games flaws but i really dont think bungie gets that they could tap into a huge market if they just start talking back to us. Either way it was a pleasure hearing a sane mans opinion and perspective.

hey no lie, I had fun with this DISCUSSION. some dudes here dont even read. Im still hoping the future of Destiny will get better, and I do understand your point well. I bought the season pass because I got Destiny for black Friday, but I was gonna be weary of future expansions after. wait a bit after they get released to see the content and decide then. so Im not as naive as I made myself out to be. but I loved Reach, I played the FUDGE outta the Destiny Demo, and Im having fun still. only time will reveal if that continues.