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10/23/2014 11:25:50 PM
10
If you don't know how to hold the relic/shoot oracles/guard gates on both hard and normal, then stick to daily challenges. You guys want the game to be easy and drop all the good stuff for you. WHERE IS THE CHALLENGE???
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Edited by GhilKlinWar: 10/24/2014 12:41:56 AMI see that you fall into the category of those that have been blessed by RNG, have three of the same class and are running the raid 3 times a week (what 32 times with the swapping of your Raid gear between the guardians?) and over 11 days of gametime to date; so of course your opinion can be understood. However, your stance of not wanting others to be capable of learning it THE SAME WAY, UNDER THE SAME CONDITIONS you did seems to look like you simply wish to keep others from getting up on that pedestal with you. This move isolates, it does not challenge - hence the proposal, The proposal does not seriously affect you unless you fear the challenge presented and you seem to believe that what you can learn easily others should be just as capable of even when they have limited time (only 1 guardian so only 1 chance to learn a week), piss poor luck (the raid was not so easy when you did not have the gear was it, now add the random factor), which either indicates an ignorance of the larger picture, or a belief that others have nothing better to do with their lives than play this game - foregoing a full-time job, spouse, family and life other than the game. But I can understand your position, you have nothing better to do than play the game and feel that you have earned the right to handicap others and keep them from earning the same success in the same way that you did so that you can validate yourself. You really want to help others, how about you help give them the same conditions, the same learning experience as your own and then when they have had that chance throw them the next challenge. That is my whole point here - do not alter the conditions that have allowed those like yourself to reach the place where they now are with their gear, level and skill. This is not challenging you - it only challenges the new players and rather than extending the game play it turns away people that are not already at your capability. And NO, I am not going to turn this into an argument with you so further remarks (you are welcomed to rebuttal of course, and I do hope to see a logical and reasonably thought out response - other than "they can learn" - if you feel the need to) will not elicit a second reply; I just thought I should point out where you were in the game and how your comment failed to point out that the conditions under which you got there would no longer exist for the new players.
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No arguments here at the end of the day it's just a game and I enjoy reading everyone's opinion. Some corrections to what you're saying. I do help other gamers with the raid even though I have already done it. I spend more time in this game because I enjoy it and I'm a full time student and not working. I did not use exploits or cheats to get to this level. Raids are meant to be tough and therefore the experience is great after you beat it. Now you're saying that because I did the raid before bungee will release the random teleportation patch, it's s not fair to the new players because I did it the easier way, If that's the case then the gamers who got the raid armor and vex gun from cheesing Atheon should downgrade and lose those guns and gear after the patch because "it's not fair" to the newbies. Us gamers should adapt to any changes and work through it together as that is another fun thing to do together. I don't talk on behalf of everyone else as you said some other gamers would boot players just because their not doing their job right. I got booted for telling a group "let's do it the right way" but I'm not complaining. I grinded with all 3 of my characters to get to where I am now. If people don't have time to do this and have jobs and families then how is that the games problem? It's the same concept as world of Warcraft game, the more you play the better you will be. I've seen players get the full gear and the vex gun and they only put less than 100 hours in the game. Am I mad? No I'm actually impressed by their stuff and I say it straight to them.
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I absolutely feel the same as you about those that used the exploits and got the gear - Bungie caught it and fixed it, however we are sure to see more of those exposed and utilized in the future - as so many other games have experienced. I do not feel that your "if that is the case" argument is appropriate though, one was an exploit, this is changing the core relationship of the game and shutting out anyone that cannot find someone like you to get them in (you are rare in that aspect as your own comments indicate), cannot be very, very lucky in RNG and that have the capacity to comprehend complex instructions prior to execution, of which the roles required will be random. Thank you for the reply back - I admire you for your taking the time to teach others and for your approach to the game, as well as your success to date, but above all your honesty in your reply - which is why I am adding this here. Though IMHO there should be a flag on gear (just like on the guardian) that prevents the gear from going back into the raid more than once a week. If you want to run it more often then you should have to earn the gear for each guardian - this is arguably an exploit itself. Once someone has a set they can now spend an afternoon and level up to 20 then put the gear on, hit raid quality level and jump into the raid for a 2nd or even 3rd replay. This exasperates the "time played" differential and creates an even further gap between the hardcore and the casual, hell even between me (the average - in between the two) and you as far as that goes. Anyhow - good hunting mate, and best of luck with your scholastic goals
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Thats not very good advice, the raid is fun and everyone should be able to experience it. Instead of just sticking to dailies, encourage people to practice so that they can fill in whatever role they are needed for.
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Tell ya what. Let me teach you how to juggle. Except I'm not going to let you learn with something easier like tennis balls or bowling pins. I'm going to give you three CHAINSAWS...that are RUNNING. How's that for a "challenge". The mechanics of the Atheon fight are VERY complicated, and leave little room for error. Even on Normal mode. Which is why raid teams can still wipe even when they know exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Most people don't have the ability to learn multiple tasks at the same time. So what Bungie is proposing to do is create a situation that MULTIPLES the chances of teams failing....and pushing teams towards being reluctant to mentor new players in the Raid. Because they don't want to see raid runs that wee taking 90 minutes balloon back upt to 6 and 7 hours. Because that new player finds that he can't manage to learn how to juggle with running chainsaws.
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My gamer friend, you are honestly making it look harder than what it is. I have taught first timers to do these tasks. We wiped a lot but we got it done and it didn't take 6-7 hours. How many hours did it take you when you did it the first time? And how glad we're you when you saw Atheon catch fire and fell to his ashes??? We failed over and over again until we made it. If it's too easy it's not fun anymore.
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Edited by TheArtist: 10/24/2014 12:35:14 AMThe first time I ran the VoG, it took the team I was with 6 hours from start until we called it a night on the Atheon fight. That's with THREE people who had completed the raid before, and NOT counting the hour I'd spent two day's earlier with a group trying to see if we could crack open the Vault with only five people. Three people who knew the mechanics of the Atheon fight, but did not know the intricacies of the roles they had to play in doing it with three others who had NO experience. The raid only becomes "easy" when you know EXACtLY what to do...and you can still get tripped up if your execution is off. Throwing people into a situation where they are forced to try to learn multiple roles that require precise positioning and timing in order to succeed, is to set them up to fail. ...and not everyone is going to be tolerant of that failure. One of the guys I've raided with got "kicked off" a raiding party because the leader didn't want to deal with any "mistakes". Not a "lot" of them. Not ANY. Hell you even have the guys for IGN who cover Destiny recommending that they dump anyone who "keeps dying" in the Hard raid mode.
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Annnnd people are supposed to learn the mechanics how? Standard raid shouldn't have it, so the roles can be learned. Hard raid adds this to make it "hard." Honestly, different difficulties should have different twists and mechanics anyways but that's another issue entirely.
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One can simply explain those roles, you do it at the Templar anyways so it's nothing new. I've always joined first timers and we went through it easy. People just need to be patient.
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If people stop cheesin maybe they would actually find it EASY to do these things!! For two weeks now every group I joined cheeses oracle/Templar/Atheon. If I even mention "let's do it the legit way" I get booted. And I see how the group sucks at the gatekeeper part.
