If you are reloading a gun, and you let go of the magazine to punch/palm/knife somebody, it's unreasonable to think you've been reloading the gun at the same time. If you are reloading and you break out into a sprint, good freaking luck being able to swap out magazines and load the first bullet into the chamber.
Be glad your hand cannon is NOT a revolver and that you can reload it by magazines instead of loading each bullet one by one the way you would a shotgun.
It's part realism, and part balance. If you need to reload your gun, you need to get into cover... or learn to dodge bullets so that you can reload in the open. If you're going to use your melee, you can't be dealing with your gun (maybe fire it, but that's already possible, to fire and let go of your gun to do your melee near simultaneously after).
Plus, if you're in the air, you can handle reloading just fine. You can double jump (or triple jump) before reaching the ground to allow yourself full time to reload, then continue sprinting as you touch the ground, keeping up your speed. Using this, you can basically ignore the rule of walking to reload. Of course, sunsinger warlocks already spend more than half their time in the air, so it might just be something more second-nature to me instead of you or a titan who seem to spend more of your time on the ground... But yeah, that feature is there.
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[quote]If you are reloading a gun, and you let go of the magazine to punch/palm/knife somebody, it's unreasonable to think you've been reloading the gun at the same time. If you are reloading and you break out into a sprint, good freaking luck being able to swap out magazines and load the first bullet into the chamber. Be glad your hand cannon is NOT a revolver and that you can reload it by magazines instead of loading each bullet one by one the way you would a shotgun. It's part realism, and part balance. If you need to reload your gun, you need to get into cover... or learn to dodge bullets so that you can reload in the open. If you're going to use your melee, you can't be dealing with your gun (maybe fire it, but that's already possible, to fire and let go of your gun to do your melee near simultaneously after). Plus, if you're in the air, you can handle reloading just fine. You can double jump (or triple jump) before reaching the ground to allow yourself full time to reload, then continue sprinting as you touch the ground, keeping up your speed. Using this, you can basically ignore the rule of walking to reload. Of course, sunsinger warlocks already spend more than half their time in the air, so it might just be something more second-nature to me instead of you or a titan who seem to spend more of your time on the ground... But yeah, that feature is there.[/quote] ALSO, realism? Because being resurrected by a flying pyramid, to fight for the human race and earth by killing different alien species is real... Right? I thought we were carefully chosen warriors...
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Edited by kiomadoushi: 10/8/2014 7:02:52 PMpart realism, part balance The realism part there is that there are humans doing human things, with half-sentient AI robots and machines. The balance part is you need a way to revive because it's a video game, and the half-sentient AI robots make as good a choice as any since it follows you around. The realism part is that our characters really do die, feeling all the pain, according to game lore. The balance part is we can be revived just to die all over again, and continue playing with our magically healed up wounds.
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learn to id shapes. The ghosts are clearly not pyramids.
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[quote]learn to id shapes. The ghosts are clearly not pyramids.[/quote] Actually the more I think about it the more I realize I've never really looked at them, they are a pointless part of the game.. I know they have a pointy shape.
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[quote]learn to id shapes. The ghosts are clearly not pyramids.[/quote] Diamonds, I don't really care.
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Edited by Hatersaurus: 10/8/2014 6:49:34 PM[quote]If you are reloading a gun, and you let go of the magazine to punch/palm/knife somebody, it's unreasonable to think you've been reloading the gun at the same time. If you are reloading and you break out into a sprint, good freaking luck being able to swap out magazines and load the first bullet into the chamber. Be glad your hand cannon is NOT a revolver and that you can reload it by magazines instead of loading each bullet one by one the way you would a shotgun. It's part realism, and part balance. If you need to reload your gun, you need to get into cover... or learn to dodge bullets so that you can reload in the open. If you're going to use your melee, you can't be dealing with your gun (maybe fire it, but that's already possible, to fire and let go of your gun to do your melee near simultaneously after). Plus, if you're in the air, you can handle reloading just fine. You can double jump (or triple jump) before reaching the ground to allow yourself full time to reload, then continue sprinting as you touch the ground, keeping up your speed. Using this, you can basically ignore the rule of walking to reload. Of course, sunsinger warlocks already spend more than half their time in the air, so it might just be something more second-nature to me instead of you or a titan who seem to spend more of your time on the ground... But yeah, that feature is there.[/quote] Sounds like you've never reloaded a firearm while running, then chambered it in real life, I have, and it's completely feasible and easy.
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ahem. SPRINTING. Do I need to edit this post to capitalize where I say sprinting? You already can run and reload. Look at the speed you move and the animation: it's running. The point is sprinting, as in 100 meter dash full-out sprint. You don't walk and reload. You're just so used to running because you've never realized there's a real walk speed and animation in the game too. Running and reloading is feasible. Sprinting, not so much; a real sprint, not the half-jog "sprint" that's really just running anyways, requires a lot of body movement that running doesn't, where you just won't get the same speed out of the movement if you aren't putting all of your effort into actually sprinting. I'm guessing you own a few firearms; go outside, start sprinting, and then reload one of them. Tell me you don't lose any speed at all (down to a run) or at least one of your movements - sprinting or reloading - doesn't get in the way of the other.
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[quote]If you are reloading a gun, and you let go of the magazine to punch/palm/knife somebody, it's unreasonable to think you've been reloading the gun at the same time. If you are reloading and you break out into a sprint, good freaking luck being able to swap out magazines and load the first bullet into the chamber. Be glad your hand cannon is NOT a revolver and that you can reload it by magazines instead of loading each bullet one by one the way you would a shotgun. It's part realism, and part balance. If you need to reload your gun, you need to get into cover... or learn to dodge bullets so that you can reload in the open. If you're going to use your melee, you can't be dealing with your gun (maybe fire it, but that's already possible, to fire and let go of your gun to do your melee near simultaneously after). Plus, if you're in the air, you can handle reloading just fine. You can double jump (or triple jump) before reaching the ground to allow yourself full time to reload, then continue sprinting as you touch the ground, keeping up your speed. Using this, you can basically ignore the rule of walking to reload. Of course, sunsinger warlocks already spend more than half their time in the air, so it might just be something more second-nature to me instead of you or a titan who seem to spend more of your time on the ground... But yeah, that feature is there.[/quote] It is possible to run and reload weapons in real life, they have advanced courses designed to teach quick movements while maintaining combat effectiveness. Would some guns be extremely hard to reload on the run? Yes, but any firearm with a magazine can be reloaded while in mid sprint... as far as a revolver is concerned, u would need lots of practice and a speed loader to efficiently load on the run.
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Run and reload, yes... But you already do run and reload. The matter is SPRINTING. Take a chance to walk around the tower. Push your analog stick a little, and you walk at varying speeds. Push it a bit more, and you start up a jog. Push it even more, and you begin running... Now press it in, and your speed greatly increases, obviously being the sprint. Please tell me that you can sprint and reload a gun, full out sprint, not half-jog pacing yourself "sprint". I'm talking the real sprint, like straight to the finish sprint, or 100 meter dash sprint. If you can keep your hands steady (which requires even more energy to move with the fluidity required to actually sprint) then it's okay to believe you can reload and sprint. But chances are you won't. Running and reloading is different, which you already do.
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[quote]Run and reload, yes... But you already do run and reload. The matter is SPRINTING. Take a chance to walk around the tower. Push your analog stick a little, and you walk at varying speeds. Push it a bit more, and you start up a jog. Push it even more, and you begin running... Now press it in, and your speed greatly increases, obviously being the sprint. Please tell me that you can sprint and reload a gun, full out sprint, not half-jog pacing yourself "sprint". I'm talking the real sprint, like straight to the finish sprint, or 100 meter dash sprint. If you can keep your hands steady (which requires even more energy to move with the fluidity required to actually sprint) then it's okay to believe you can reload and sprint. But chances are you won't. Running and reloading is different, which you already do.[/quote] I'm not sure if the game uses a true sprint or a heavy run... I have never felt that the sprint was a true max speed 100 yard dash. I certainly know you could reload a magazine fed rifle at a much greater speed than the standard jogging speed. The efficiency of said reload is a different issue. Due to the sci fi nature of the game, I think you could also make the argument that the guardians are physically and skillfully superhuman. I'll give a dry-go the next chance I get with my Sig556, but I'm no soldier and definitely no a guardian.
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Edited by kiomadoushi: 10/8/2014 7:10:58 PMSci-fi nature of the game, you were DEAD and could barely move your body as soon as you were brought to life (intro scene, you try moving your fingers and they're very rigid and crack a little). While the light that gives you life could make you more powerful, superhuman is a bit of a stretch imo. Plus, like any soldier, they seem to be wearing AT LEAST 50 pounds of armor and weapons, and easily 80 or 90 pounds... Your 100m dash speed is going to vary between light, thin, tight clothes, and heavy, semi-restricting armor and weapons. The sprint speed is a bit slower, yes, but still a very reasonable speed for being decked out in tons of armor and heavy weapons, and still trying to sprint, the same as any soldier in heavy gear.
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[quote]Sci-fi nature of the game, you were DEAD and could barely move your body as soon as you were brought to life (intro scene, you try moving your fingers and they're very rigid and crack a little). While the light that gives you life could make you more powerful, superhuman is a bit of a stretch imo. Plus, like any soldier, they seem to be wearing AT LEAST 50 pounds of armor and weapons, and easily 80 or 90 pounds... Your 100m dash speed is going to vary between light, thin, tight clothes, and heavy, semi-restricting armor and weapons. The sprint speed is a bit slower, yes, but still a very reasonable speed for being decked out in tons of armor and heavy weapons, and still trying to sprint, the same as any soldier in heavy gear.[/quote] List man... I don't disagree with your premise, for the most part, I'm just saying you can reload a magazine fed gun on a fairly heavy run/sprint. If you're going all out, I would have to agree your pumping arms would prevent reloading. I do want to point out how impractical in a fps a full, Ussien Bolt(sp?) Style sprint would be, especially while carrying any sort of firearm, especially at the near-ready position as the animations would imply.
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That's not quite near-ready... The weight of any held object would disbalance you while swinging it with your arms if held by only one arm, assuming it's light enough to even handle with just one hand. Considering you don't hold your weapons when doing any of the emote animations, even if you only use one hand to wave or to point, I'm going to guess it's just unwieldy. As such, sprinting with a heavy object in your hands would require you to keep it held by both, pulling it in close to your body to prevent disturbing the fluidity of the movement and require expending a LOT more energy. Sprint physics are something a lot of people just don't think about, and not a lot of people spend extended periods of time studying physics - only enough to get through school, unless you're like me and enjoy the maths and sciences of physics, and love programming physics in games. Running requires less energy expenditure to move, especially so on your upper half. As long as you can maintain balance, your upper body can do about whatever you want. It will increase energy expenditure, but remember that little thing called E=mc^(2)? While not talking about light speed, it still applies: energy increases exponentially based on speed and the mass of the object. Increase the weight of a person, say by carrying 90 pounds of gear, then increase the speed you're trying to go, and it's a lot of energy. If you can't put enough energy into moving the massive object, it will slow down. It's for that reason the upper body is so important in sprinting: by moving the upper body, you can maintain momentum to allow for your own movement to support the speed of your movement (an object in motion tends to stay in motion), requiring less energy on your part to keep up a fast speed; if you aren't moving your upper body to maintain momentum, you begin creating counterforces that begin to increase the amount of energy required on your part; if you're moving your upper body in a way completely counterintuitive to moving forward, say by reloading a weapon by putting the empty magazine into a pack to reload later then pulling out another one to attach and ready, or manually grabbing a bunch of shells and pushing them into a shotgun one by one, you create even stronger forces that work to slow you down, and drastically increase the energy required to keep sprinting. As said earlier, if the energy isn't enough, you slow down. Clearly what's happening. The reason you can reload while using your double jump / jetpack / glide then is because you don't have to put any energy into moving, it's doing it for you, leaving you free to reload even during the jumpy movements of a jetpack thruster or while riding on a plane or helicopter either hitting turbulance or trying to strafe to avoid enemy fire and get you in for a safe landing in a warzone. That's the realism part that makes players understand and expect physics because it's how our own world works... The balance part is that you don't need to manually refill your clips when you choose to reload after only firing one bullet.
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[quote]That's not quite near-ready... The weight of any held object would disbalance you while swinging it with your arms if held by only one arm, assuming it's light enough to even handle with just one hand. Considering you don't hold your weapons when doing any of the emote animations, even if you only use one hand to wave or to point, I'm going to guess it's just unwieldy. As such, sprinting with a heavy object in your hands would require you to keep it held by both, pulling it in close to your body to prevent disturbing the fluidity of the movement and require expending a LOT more energy. Sprint physics are something a lot of people just don't think about, and not a lot of people spend extended periods of time studying physics - only enough to get through school, unless you're like me and enjoy the maths and sciences of physics, and love programming physics in games. Running requires less energy expenditure to move, especially so on your upper half. As long as you can maintain balance, your upper body can do about whatever you want. It will increase energy expenditure, but remember that little thing called E=mc^(2)? While not talking about light speed, it still applies: energy increases exponentially based on speed and the mass of the object. Increase the weight of a person, say by carrying 90 pounds of gear, then increase the speed you're trying to go, and it's a lot of energy. If you can't put enough energy into moving the massive object, it will slow down. It's for that reason the upper body is so important in sprinting: by moving the upper body, you can maintain momentum to allow for your own movement to support the speed of your movement (an object in motion tends to stay in motion), requiring less energy on your part to keep up a fast speed; if you aren't moving your upper body to maintain momentum, you begin creating counterforces that begin to increase the amount of energy required on your part; if you're moving your upper body in a way completely counterintuitive to moving forward, say by reloading a weapon by putting the empty magazine into a pack to reload later then pulling out another one to attach and ready, or manually grabbing a bunch of shells and pushing them into a shotgun one by one, you create even stronger forces that work to slow you down, and drastically increase the energy required to keep sprinting. As said earlier, if the energy isn't enough, you slow down. Clearly what's happening. The reason you can reload while using your double jump / jetpack / glide then is because you don't have to put any energy into moving, it's doing it for you, leaving you free to reload even during the jumpy movements of a jetpack thruster or while riding on a plane or helicopter either hitting turbulance or trying to strafe to avoid enemy fire and get you in for a safe landing in a warzone. That's the realism part that makes players understand and expect physics because it's how our own world works... The balance part is that you don't need to manually refill your clips when you choose to reload after only firing one bullet.[/quote] Much of your sprint speed comes from the assistance of arm movement. Guys carry battle rifles weighing 8.75lbs (loaded) are not able to fully sprint. I am arguing that the sprinting in this game would allow a trained soldier to reload on the run, with a magazine fed weapon, with an obvious loss to efficiency. The guardians aren't racing, they are probably using more of a heavy run that relies on less momentum, thus be able to do simple tasks like dropping a magazine and slamming one into the well. Personally, this conversation has probably gone further than the original poster intended, with neither of us willing to change our opinions. I own and fire real guns, there is few things easier that dropping a mag and slamming a full one in its place. I could probably do it in 3 seconds standing still, but running hard while doing it would take much longer, I would guess 8-12 seconds.
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Don't really care what the logic is - the point is it breaks the flow and fun of the gunfighting. Honestly it doesn't really matter, the game is just repetitive crap anyway.
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Wow... you couldn't even give me a unique reply. You just copy/pasted that from earlier...
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Your reply ignored the salient point of my post - seemed fair enough.
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It most certainly did not... you just refused my reply by copy/pasting a reply from earlier, not even giving my reply the time to read it. It's a realism point, which many players actually find fun. It's challenging to not just be reloading while you're sprinting around, but need to find cover. The challenge draws players in, making it more fun. I'm sorry you don't find fun in challenging games and you want everything all at once, but small stuff like that IS part of the fun and flow of gunfighting. The logic you don't care about is the proof that it is fun and does set a very stable and enjoyable flow to the game, and that you're just being needy.
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[quote]It most certainly did not... you just refused my reply by copy/pasting a reply from earlier, not even giving my reply the time to read it. It's a realism point, which many players actually find fun. It's challenging to not just be reloading while you're sprinting around, but need to find cover. The challenge draws players in, making it more fun. I'm sorry you don't find fun in challenging games and you want everything all at once, but small stuff like that IS part of the fun and flow of gunfighting. The logic you don't care about is the proof that it is fun and does set a very stable and enjoyable flow to the game, and that you're just being needy.[/quote] Im awesome.