You can't produce a game that is only good for serious players and expect it to do well. Otherwise what your saying is cool, punish me for being a good father with 2 kids that works 48+ hours per week. I'll never be able to keep up with those who have no life or just tons of extra time on their hands

Hey no one is punishing anyone at this point... You people need to chill, relax and just enjoy the game. You have two kids? Can't play the way you would like? And that's Bungie's fault?!? Are you serious??? Ridiculous statement aside, no one is saying you suck because you can't spend enough time in the game. You're a parent, and its awesome you even find a minute for yourself, let alone play a grind-fest like this. Besides my responsibilities,(work two jobs) I manage to get hours in when I can, so it's possible. Don't make it out to be "oh well if I didn't have a life..." because that's bs and you know it. You players are sooo salty about Destiny, and I'm really having a hard time figuring out why.

Congrats you missed the point, (slow clap) they reward the crap out of people who have unreasonable amounts of time to play the game, not just people like me suffer from this, to be great you need to play this game 4+ hours per day or more. They could at least somewhat up rewards for people who don't have ample amounts of time to throw at their game, and the other part of the point is that they are lose players who are even loyal to bungie now because of things their doing. Halo got it right, you could play halo 2, 1 hour a day and still do just as well as someone who played 5 hours a day, this is not the case with destiny.

Preaching to an evangelist dude... And btw sarcasm is my native language so kudos to you sir!!! 😂 Hey I agree... People who have a gamertag associated with Destiny should at least be rewarded something, but that's not the case. I see some of what you are implying, but it's falling on deaf ears if you're trying to get the attention of the head wigs at Bungie. Is it fair to those who can't enjoy the game fully? Not exactly... But is anything ever in life? Don't answer; rhetorical question. The spoils go to the ones who grind the most... You're coming across as bitter towards those teens who have all day to play and collect loot. Me, personally... I can't hate on a kid because he's lvl 30 alrdy and the game's not even a month old yet. Kids have time to spare... We adults, do not. Spend your free time however you please, but don't knock others for spending their time how they see fit.

Techncially enemies still spawn in the cave but at 40 seconds a wave and reduced chance for them to drop engrams, it's not more efficient to stay there anymore. So, no, the loot cave has not returned. If it was working for you then you haven't gotten the patch yet. Also, that's bull regarding your MMO comparsison. Grinding in games like WoW is well known but there is tangible rewards for the time spent doing it. New and interesting abilities from leveling, gear, different quests. Destiny does not have this to rely on to make the grinding tolerable. People spend their time and get shafted for their efforts. This is why they complain not because they have to grind. People had to grind in Borderlands as well but the content there was funny and bosses and enenemies rained loot like pinatas motivating people to keep doing it. That motivation doesn't exist here. Further, "Only players who are truly serious about this game will be rewarded... Those who lose interest after the tv is off, will not benefit at all." that statement isn't true at all. Not with a completely RNG loot system. People who AFK in the crucible or in strikes have just as much a chance to get exotic weaposn as the people who put all the effort in.

Your entitled to an opinion... That's fair. But denying facts is just unsettling. Without getting into a "trolling" debate with you (extremely busy man, I am) Destiny IS an MMO... A massive, multiplayer RPG: sounds like Destiny. Raid bosses that take multiple players to tackle: yep, Destiny has that. Swag vendors at a central hub: Hmmm... Tower; check. So your argument falls flat in my eyes. You should just enjoy your time in the game, dude. That's what the devs were striving for... Well that, and your $60 plus... Destiny was meant to be a socially engaging newground for console players... Something the "PC elitist" has know for quite some time now. So I'm sorry you've been under the proverbial "rock" for a while it would seem. I'm not defending Bungie at all. Was never a fanboy of theirs or the Halo IP (although I did play thru Halo 2) but give credit where it's due. Destiny is a good game so far... We aren't going to get the entire package anytime soon. That would defeat the purpose of a ten year publishing deal with Activision. So, in the words of Green Bay Packers' starting QB Aaron Rodgers: "people, relax...." Destiny WILL get better... I mean there's nowhere to go but up from here, right? And FYI: if the original loot cave's location is in the cosmodrome, then yeah... It's still kicking, pal. I got an update and all... Need to refresh your sources I guess.

First of all, I'm not stating it doesn't have MMO elements. I never argued that so the first part of your response is pointless. I was referring to your comparison with MMO grinding as to why Destiny's use is ok, which it isn't and is not like other games. Not unless you refer to any grinding as the same regardless of context. "Destiny was meant to be a socially engaging newground for console players" Except that it isn't. Only being able to talk to your fireteam and having 3 total animations to interact with people doesn't socially engage anyone. The novel feeling of seeing other people in certain areas of the 4 worlds wears off pretty quickly after a few days. "So I'm sorry you've been under the proverbial "rock" for a while it would seem."...there is nothing you said previously that prompts that response nor something I said that would make it seem like I was unaware of something. I understand how PC MMO games work, that's where a lot of the complaints stem from from many Destiny players in that they don't go all the way with the MMO elements. There are literally hundreds of posts from various people detailing these problems and numerous reviews detailing them as well. " And FYI: if the original loot cave's location is in the cosmodrome, then yeah... It's still kicking, pal. I got an update and all... Need to refresh your sources I guess." ...the source is Bungie. It's in their patch notes. I mean seriously with this? The cave is still physically there, it didn't go anywhere. The point is using it for loot farming is pointless now that waves are spaced further apart and they drop less stuff. The main point is because it acted as a way of bringing people together to do public events or fight waves of tougher enemies that would sometimes appear in the area the game needs more things like that, even if it isn't the same expact spot on the map. The "they've got a 10 year plan" nonsense doesn't satisfy anyone. All companies want to say that about any franchise of games they make. But each game needs to stand on its own and have enough content to satisfy people until new stuff is added. Skyrim placated people for months until people even started considering asking for DLC. Doing the same handful of story missions and bullet sponge boss battles in strikes will not keep people's interest for long no matter what you think.

Ok... You're going to be debating with your doppelgänger because I don't have time to troll... I'm actually going to be playing Destiny in a few minutes, so..... Have fun :)

...you seriously need to look up the word troll because it doesn't mean what you think it means. Arguing with someone on the internet who is making coherent points, regardless if you agree or disagree, isn't "trolling".