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originally posted in:Halo Archive
Edited by Orbital Drop Shock Trooper:
7/29/2014 12:46:01 PM
3
Halo 4 is a reboot sequel.
The visuals [and other things, like gameplay and game engine] complement the reboot aspect, while the story is a sequel because it's a continuation of the saga.
The attempt to explain the visual difference for the character models to fit in canon just waters down the quality of the Halo universe. [because it is a forced explanation, done to appease transition rather than to appeal to quality]
In the end, Halo is science-[u]fiction.[/u]
Everything is made up and can be subject to change anytime.
Depending on the writers and artist involved.
So honestly, there's very little to be found in searching for a legit answer to why Halo 4 is the way it is [in terms of armour, character etc] compared to the past games.
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Edited by Mr Admirals7044: 7/29/2014 2:28:32 PM[quote]Halo 4 is a reboot sequel.[/quote]Yes. [quote]The visuals [and other things, like gameplay and game engine] complement the reboot aspect, while the story is a sequel because it's a continuation of the saga.[/quote]True. [quote]The attempt to explain the visual difference for the character models to fit in canon just waters down the quality of the Halo universe.[/quote]Wait. Creating and explaining alien biology adds diversity to the universe, not the opposite. [quote][because it is a forced explanation, done to appease transition rather than to appeal to quality][/quote]How do you even know it was forced? We have no idea how long 343i's had this lore information. You may not not have noticed (most never do), but this explanation doesn't just fit for Halo 3 -> Halo 4 grunts. Halo CE and Halo 2 grunts had alligator skin. Next thing you know, in Halo 3 they had "exoskeletons". [quote]In the end, Halo is science-[u]fiction[/u].[/quote]I feel like you're purposely ignoring the "science" part. Because you know, that sort of demands an explanation for the huge variation in Grunt appearances. [quote]Everything is made up and can be subject to change anytime. Depending on the writers and artist involved.[/quote]Yeah, and that generally never happens. You're saying this as if the next thing we know, we find out the Halos actually fire rainbows of happiness. Canon gets created, and everything after it is built upon that. [quote]So honestly, there's very little to be found in searching for a legit answer to why Halo 4 is the way it is [in terms of armour, character etc] compared to the past games.[/quote]Each new iteration of something in Halo doesn't nullify its existence in the universe. Every single different Marine, Grunt, Elite, Brute, Spartan, Jackal, and Hunter armor are all canon. They all coexist in the same universe. If each new iteration of something in Halo cancelled out the last version, it wouldn't make sense to have so many different variants of one weapon. Why not render all the past BRs in Halo "non-canon" and simply make Halo 4's BR, the BR55HBSR?
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Edited by Orbital Drop Shock Trooper: 7/29/2014 3:02:35 PMcba to go through the entire comment. Everything is made up and can be subject to change anytime. Depending on the writers and artist involved. [quote]Yeah, and that generally never happens. You're saying this as if the next thing we know, we find out the Halos actually fire rainbows of happiness. Canon gets created, and everything after it is built upon that.'[/quote] my point exactly, if halo 5 had introduced a Halo which did just that. You would just have to sit there and accept it. You're ignoring the fiction part, it is very unlikely but it is not impossible. The problem with taking canon this seriously [trust me I delved deep in the Halo canon back in the day] is that whatever is established can easily be un-established overnight. Nothing is concrete. Hell Master-Cheif could be turned into a woman ten years from now. In the end, Halo is science-fiction. [quote]'I feel like you're purposely ignoring the "science" part. Because you know, that sort of demands an explanation for the huge variation in Grunt appearances. '[/quote] Well I feel as you're purposely ignoring the fiction which kinda overtrumps the science part. Sometimes you can go as deep as you want in these fictional universes, where subclasses of species and different varients and manufacturers of the battle rifle exist. But in the end it's all made up, some writer wrote it with a purpose to entertain and inform you to bring immersion to the universe. Which is fine, and I guess that's where we differ. I liked the ideas and adventure of the Halo Universe where mystery existed [forerunners and the idea of not knowing but itching closer] New Halo [343i interpretation] wants to blow the hatchet open and give you every little detail of every little thing. The problem with this is that it takes itself too seriously. When you do that you lose what made Halo... Halo. Which is why Eric Nylund is the best writer in the Halo Universe. If Fall of Reach was anything like Greg Bear's Halo Cryptum. I would never have become interested in Halo Canon. It becomes the stuff that brings about the negative image of middle aged males discussing lore to such detail, that it's actually... kinda sad.
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Edited by Mr Admirals7044: 7/29/2014 3:31:50 PM[quote]Everything is made up and can be subject to change anytime. Depending on the writers and artist involved.[/quote]Yup, but you're acting unrealistically if you think that 343i would go back on explanations for no reason. They've got Halo's story planned out for the next 20 years. [quote]You're ignoring the fiction part, it is very unlikely but it is not impossible.[/quote]I'm not ignoring the fiction part. The fiction part about Science-Fiction is the liberty to create things that don't naturally exist. However, the Science aspect demands an explanation in some form. [quote]The problem with taking canon this seriously [trust me I delved deep in the Halo canon back in the day] is that whatever is established can easily be un-established overnight. Nothing is concrete. Hell Master-Cheif could be turned into a woman ten years from now.[/quote]Exact that's never happened. You're acting like that's happened before. The closest thing to that ever happening was with Reach, but even then, Bungie worked with Nylund to make the game and book work together. (For whatever reason, they decided not to share the details on how the two function together.) [quote]-In the end, Halo is science-fiction. -me[/quote]Well, yeah. I mean, there's really no other genre it fits into. [quote]I feel as you're purposely ignoring the fiction part. Sometimes you can go as deep as you want in these fictional universes, where subclasses of species and different varients and manufacturers of the battle rifle exist.[/quote]How is me being okay with a scientific explanation for the large variation in Unggoy appearances, ignoring the fiction? [quote]But in the end it's all made up, some writer wrote it with a purpose to entertain and inform you to bring immersion to the universe.[/quote]Your point? Halo isn't Star Wars. It isn't managed like that. Even though Bungie never planned out Halo's story, they went to incredible efforts to ensure that all the fiction worked together as much as possible. Something that 343i continues to do. [quote]I liked the ideas and adventure of the Halo Universe where mystery existed [forerunners and the idea of not knowing but itching closer][/quote]Mystery does still exist in Halo. You're looking in the wrong places now. Yeah, the Forerunners being this mystery was a great story mechanic. It wasn't bad. However, after 10 years it just turns into stagnation. If they kept up the mystery of the Forerunners, it ends up turning into this cliche trope where the universe/story can't move forward in meaningful ways. Halo was getting to that point even before 343i took over. Look at how many stories follow the cliche of stopping the Covenant from acquiring ancient Forerunner artifacts of great power. [quote]New Halo [343i interpretation] wants to blow the hatchet open and give you every little detail of every little thing.[/quote]You're acting like all the mystery Halo had to offer was the Forerunners. What about the Precursors? The Flood? Hell, even then, we barely know anything about the Forerunners, or their plans. Did it seem like a lot was revealed? Yeah, but it's literally impossible to show off everything of a civilization that spanned 3 million worlds over millions of star systems. [quote]The problem with this is that it takes itself to seriously.[/quote]Guess what, the novels always took themselves seriously too. The games and novels under Bungie always had this disconnect, because the tone for both was always different. [quote]When you do that you lose what made Halo... Halo.[/quote]Well, actually, according to Bungie this is the definition of what Halo is: [i]"Halo is an epic journey to save humanity from a terrible menace." —Chris Carney on Halo 3 Legendary Edition: 7 Steps To World Domination[/i] [quote]Which is why Eric Nylund is the best writer in the Halo Universe.[/quote]Wait what? You're contradicting yourself. Nylund's novels were rather serious considering they dealt with the especially nasty aspects of the Halo Universe. [quote] If Fall of Reach was anything like Greg Bear's Halo Cryptum.[/quote]I don't see why they would be in the first place. Nylund's simplified writing style with clear explanations of what's going on and how things work, fit the context of the UNSC since the goal was to make them as similar to modern day humanity as possible so the player could really connect with the faction. Greg Bear's writing style fits the Forerunners perfectly. He has this thematically complex writing style that conveys stories of mythic proportions. I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but that each writer was given the best possible chance to succeed with the fiction. But this is all hypothetical, if their novels were reversed, would they refuse to adapt their styles of writing? Probably not. Both authors have quite a few books under their belts with different styles. [quote] It becomes the stuff that brings about the negative image of middle aged males discussing lore to such detail, that it's actually... [/quote]Newsflash: the lore has always been discussed to this detail. Even when CE first came out. If you look at the discussion for CE on HBO, it's incredible how much effort people were putting in to try and support their theories or ideas about the story. Then you have people like Stephen Loftus who took it to the next step and started calculating the size of all the objects in Halo CE. Bungie was so impressed with his work, they ended up making it canon. (Which is why Halcyion Cruisers are 1.17km long.) I almost feel like you've been absent from a large part of the community. People have always gone this in depth with the lore. Nothing's ever changed.
