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Edited by Recon Number 54:
7/10/2014 3:25:44 AM
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These forums are provided by our hosts for this community. If a member has a beef, as long as they stay within the guidelines of their membership agreement and the Code of Conduct, they are welcome to share their thoughts with the rest of the community.
The ninja aren't here to "protect Bungie's honor" as if Bungie were some drunk freshman coed being hungrily approached by the varsity football team. The men and women of Bungie, our hosts, are "big boys and girls" and they don't expect and have never asked us to silence any member of this community because they have a criticism, or even anger at Bungie. As long as they express themselves appropriately and don't violate the rules that we all agreed to follow.... they are not ninja-fodder.
I was a part of this community when Bungie expanded out from being a Mac exclusive developer and the outrage of the community that they were "now catering to the PC crowd", I remember when they developed their first console game (and the complaint was then that "you're leaving your PC/Mac base behind by making a Playstation game").
Then there was a lot of uproar over them teaming with Microsoft and making a 1-console-specific title. After that there was the anger and outrage over the fact that Halo 2 was "drastically different than CE" and the fact that Halo 2 didn't look like the E3 demo. Then there was the anger and complaints over Matchmaking (that lasted from Halo 2 to 3) and the fact that people felt "betrayed" by "this title caters to a group of gamers that I don't identify with". Rinse and repeat over 20 years. Yes, 20. 1994 was when I started playing their games and observing the cycles of love followed by intense rage.
So this is nothing new, it is perfectly acceptable, and those who are angry, those who aren't, anyone who chooses to be a member of this community, all of them and their opinions are welcome. Our hosts have never attempted to silence the strong and passionate views of gamers (both the good AND the bad views). This has not changed, and I would be disappointed if it were to change.
The opposite of love isn't hate. If people are "hating"? Then they feel strongly. That is a sign that they care. The opposite of love is apathy. When someone just goes silent and walks away, never to return or to give a crap, ever again. If we ninja were to attempt to "silence the anger", it would inspire apathy, dismissal, departure. I don't think that I would want to continue my role here if I were told "hush up anything that is complaining or non-positive".
So, what am I getting at? Hell if I know. I am an old dude who tends to ramble. I just wanted to say that strong views are a constant factor in this community. Always have been, always will be. It'll all be okay.
English
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Wall...didn't read..
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Edited by Sexy D Pickles: 7/11/2014 4:24:43 PMI'm sorry man, I REALLY tried to read this but there were just SO MANY WORDS!!! T^T
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How dare you use logic !
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LOL!!!
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In other words any press is good press, or controversy fuels sales.... If we were all purple dinosaurs all sugarplums and lollipops, there would not be as much traffic on the site as there is with us all wanting to kill each other slowly and painfully.
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If that is what you took away from my long-winded post? Congratulations, you have incredible perception that sees things that even the author doesn't know is there. I was observing and reflecting on my time as a fan of this company, their games and as a member of this community. That there have been good times of nothing but praise, and bad times of lots of hate, dismay and calls of "you've sold out, you've betrayed the faithful who made you who you are!" I was trying to say that throughout those 20 years of my participation and observation as a member of this community, there has been an ebb and flow of both praise and hatred. And through it all, there has NEVER been (as the OP requested/suggested) a Bungie initiative to "let's remove the non-positive stuff". That if gamers/fans/customers have something to complain about? That Bungie has provided a site and outlet for anyone in the community to share their views, and those views, even if profoundly negative, are NEVER inhibited or removed as long as they are expressed within the confines of civil conversation and the rules we all agreed to follow.
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I value your perspective. How repetitive are things becoming?
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It's not so much "repetitive" but rather "cyclical". In each instance, the "community outage" from some fraction of the overall community has been understandable, if you put yourself in their shoes. For example, I can understand and appreciate how many Halo players/fans feel a profound and personal connection to the game-series to the point where they feel even a measure of "ownership". So, when a new installment to the franchise comes out and it didn't go in a direction that the individual (or many individuals) expected? They feel that "you've done something with MY game that I didn't want". I may not agree with that conclusion or even consider the view to be accurate, but I can understand how a passionate and invested gamer can feel/think that. So, with every change, every new title, there is going to be a percentage of people who are not going to be pleased. And when that displeasure is combined with a sense of history, attachment and even a sort of "this is MY game", there are going to be folks who are more than eager to express that unhappiness. But it is due to people caring, and caring deeply, about this developer and the games/universes that they create which can cause that sincere unhappiness. I for one, am glad that they are so passionate and that our hosts have given us ALL a place to express ourselves, to discuss what we are happy with, and what we are unhappy with. It's a cycle I would rather see repeating over and over than to see it end. Because if it ever ends? It means that no one really cares. And that would be a real shame.
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Presumably with the success of the first three Halo games you never expected the cycle to end any time soon. I'm curious as to how different users from 2002 are to users now. The rules were likely different in some way so automatically one can assert that the true behaviour of 2002 users was silenced or tailored as a result which would make it difficult to compare them with today's users who, with the new mute feature, seemingly have more freedom (i.e. more swearing, more spam, political/religious topics). Overall it's probably just the recent games that users talked about that has truly changed, plus the fads and historical events at the time. So much data. I'd be all over the site statistics since 2002, trying to predict the behaviour of the next cycle, if such is even possible. I wonder what the most common post of each year is. As for passion and sense of ownership, my passion for Halo has only strengthened since 2002 but Bungie has always had the reigns over their games. I am simply here for the ride: all I can do from the passenger seat is share my opinion of the view. And the view has been stunning.
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You misunderstand my post I am not making it in a negative way. I am just saying moderation policy is more often than not determined by the bottom line. Companies that take the crap posted personally and go all ban hammer crazy usually end up paying for it with sales. Companies that let people express themselves and get out their rage and anger tend to keep those angry people as paying customers. It's business and it's smart business.
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Great post sir.
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Where do i sign up to ninja? *thwack* Ow... Where did this dart come frommmm... Zzzzzzzzzz...
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Understood! But can you put this threads in the community section or something!?! To ban or delete the threads ia not good you are right! But it is crazy to see all view minutes a new thread complaining about this and that. Idk is there a way to make an own hashtag for this discussion?
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Fortunately, our forums have a Mute feature as well as a Hide button. (I've been doing some beautiful things with both of these since the latest wave of community love started rolling though)
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Well said.
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Edited by Luckdog26: 7/10/2014 3:42:27 AMUhhhhhhh. I don't really know what to say back to that haha. I guess my original post was meant in jest a little bit, but it was good to see Ninja replies. haha. Also, it sounds like this community has done a hell of a lot of complaining. Not sure I want to stick around if people are just going to complain about everything Bungie does. Hopefully when Destiny releases the negativity will stop. There is more than just anger at Bungie happening though. There is anger from some of the Xbox users towards us Playstation users who have come here for Destiny. They see us as poisoning the community. I guess it is those kind of threads that piss me off. Essentially console wars, on a smaller scale. I guess I am just the kind of person that doesn't like to be surrounded by negativity, I believe in a positive environment.
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Edited by Evilcam: 7/10/2014 5:32:35 PMYeah, I kinda of doubt the complaining will go away. Usually, it is more common after the game is released. Though it is also typically more focused, and tends to be less repeated. Instead of a general complaint about a vague notion of something, which is typically all we have to complain about prior to the games release, they have specific, first hand things to complain about. However, understand that it's not as negative as the complaints at this point in the cycle. It is usually more focused, with an initial constructive attitude (this is broken, please fix it blah blah blah) than just generally mad at a specific, sorta of undefined issue. If that is too much for you, well I don't think a lot can be done about it. Hopefully you can ignore the negativity and veer away from the more obvious complaint threads, and focus on the threads you like reading. I know that is not easy to do, but hopefully you do so, so you can stick around in our community and share the eventual best parts of the dev cycle with us. At the very least, understand that the specific issue will pass. IN around 3 months, no one will talk about or really even remember this specific bout of complaints. They will move on to something else. No doubt, this specific issue will not be a point of contention at all after the BETA ends anyway, so look at it as a temporary, thus essentially meaningless distraction that you will forget out in a few weeks anyway. Happy hunting.
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[quote]I guess I am just the kind of person that doesn't like to be surrounded by negativity, I believe in a positive environment.[/quote] I understand that sentiment. It's not a bad one, but at this particular point in time, there's a ruckus going on. *shrug* The best that I can suggest is to focus on those positive and helpful topics and encourage those by participating in them. If you find a particular topic too negative? You can hide it and never see it again.
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Thanks for all your advice guys! You Ninja's are probably the nicest and most helpful forum mod's I have come into contact with in gaming forums, so kudos! I have begun making use of the mute/hide function and my experience is already getting better ahahaha.
