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originally posted in: Halo 4 Terminal Questions
Edited by Haruspis: 5/30/2014 8:22:57 PM
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[quote]at the beginning, the Didact wants to save the Humans. I don't see how this could lead to his hatred of them. Furthermore, the Librarian seems to want to destroy the humans, yet in the next terminal, she wants to save them (it seems like her and her husband are in opposite opinion.[/quote] This is the Didact when he was the noble, heroic teacher and general in Forerunner society. It was early days in the war, so we can surmise that his children are still alive at this point, he has yet to reach a point where he hates humanity. Librarian favours more rash decisions, she knows little to nothing about humanity at this point outside of the tensions that are running between their species. It's only when she spends over a thousand years studying them following their devolution that she comes to love them. [quote]in the second one, the humans hav found a planet they think might be flood-free. how hard could it be to send a message to the forerunners "hey, there's this alien parasite attacking us, it'd be great if you guys could help out. also, this is why we've been eradicating your planets. you would have done it, too."[/quote] The Forerunners did not believe that the Flood was a credible threat to the Ecumene, in fact many thought that it was simply a human bio-weapon developed to give humanity an incentive to push into Forerunner territory and expand. The Forerunner Ecumene spanned 3 million worlds, humanity had something like 10,000 because they were pushing away from the Orion Complex (away from Forerunner dominance). All the Forerunners saw were their worlds bombarded to a cinder and the human ships that had done the deed. Likewise, when the Forerunner [i]did[/i] discover the Flood, they treated it like a disease to be cured. They would've totally impeded humanity's efforts against the Flood because they spent so many years looking for a way to cure it, during which time the Flood was assimilating whole systems. Humanity knew what had to be done and their scorched earth policy ultimately paid off, the Forerunners would have impeded that at first (but then, after some hundreds of years, they ended up resorting to the same tactics humanity had used). [quote]how could the halos be a better plan than the didact's prometheans (which were decently effective. option 1: killl everything in the galaxy. option 2: let stuff live, get more soldiers in the composer, and defeat the flood. then return life to the galaxy. it seems like the halos are ridiculously unreasonable when the prometheans (in enough numbers) could at least put up a good fight.[/quote] The Forerunners don't understand ho to use the Composer properly, it only subimates one way. Once you become a Promethean, you cannot go back to being an organic being - when the Forerunner attempted this, the organic bodies they had created for the composed minds to be put in began decaying extremely fast and resulted in abominations. Librarian describes it as "manifest holocaust". It was not a viable solution, it was a crime against the Mantle, and the Ur-Didact's plan was to have the Prometheans become his own personal army who would wipe out any species that might one day contend the Forerunners for power. Likewise, the Prometheans only came about at the very end of the Forerunner-Flood war. There were very few Forerunners left and hardly enough in the way of other species to supply an army of Prometheans to take on the Flood - [b]let alone the immortal Star Roads[/b]. [quote]why didn't they just leave the galaxy? it's not like they couldn't make it to another near by galaxy. i know that they touch on the galaxy topic a bit in cryptum, but that doesn't explain why they'd rather completely irradicate life in that galaxy instead of just moving to another one.[/quote] What? The Flood came from outside the galaxy when humanity pushed them back, it's highly implied that the Flood spent those ten thousand years infecting local satellite galaxies to build up some of their strength for their return to the Milky Way. Likewise, slipspace access was almost completely closed off by the Star Roads. The Halos being constantly moved across the galaxy during the war essentially used up the 'bandwidth' of slipspace, and the Forerunners did not have the capability to travel across galaxies. Librarian's trip to Path Kethona, the local spiral galaxy just outside the Milky Way, in a single ship almost completely bankrupted the Ecumene.
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  • [quote]Likewise, slipspace access was almost completely closed off by the Star Roads. The Halos being constantly moved across the galaxy during the war essentially used up the 'bandwidth' of slipspace, and the Forerunners did not have the capability to travel across galaxies.[/quote] What was the means of the Precursor/Star Roads used for slipspace travel? I remember it was referenced in Silentium and it wasn't called slipspace, but I forgot what it was called and how it worked. However I'm pretty sure it was independent of Forerunner slipspace travel.

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  • Yeah, the Star Roads could use their own method of translocation using Precursor neural physics. The exact method they used isn't know, but they were able to do the same to enemy ships as well and send whole fleets into other dimensions to burn out.

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  • [quote]The Forerunners did not believe that the Flood was a credible threat to the Ecumene, in fact many thought that it was simply a human bio-weapon developed to give humanity an incentive to push into Forerunner territory and expand.[/quote] But then wouldn't they recognize afterwards that humanity didn't develop the Flood, seeing as they were being killed by it? It's awfully convenient that the story doesn't allow for Forerunners and humans to communicate at this point.

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  • Edited by Haruspis: 5/30/2014 8:41:42 PM
    No because the Forerunners came across whole populations of humans living in Flood-infested space where they [i]weren't[/i] being infected. it was all part of the Precursors' ruse to make the Forerunners believe that humanity had found a cure for the Flood which they weren't sharing with the Forerunners so that humanity would be preserved.

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  • but the flood was infecting the humans. it seems to me that if the precursors really wanted to sell the ruse, they'd have made the humans actually immune to the effects of the flood. i don't see why a human couldn't capture an infected human and take pics or something and send them to the didact.

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  • No, because that wasn't the point... The Flood was not intentionally created, it wasn't part of any plan. The Precursors were driven to near-extinction by the Forerunners ten million years ago and a few of the survivors became a regenerative powder which would restore their past forms. Time rendered the powder defective however and when it was discovered by humanity (at first demonstrating positive, psychotropic effects on their pets) they never knew that it would lead to the first Feral Stage of the Flood. Likewise, what would sending a picture of an infected human do to convince the Forerunners of anything? It was regarded by the Forerunners as a bio-weapon, possibly to be used to weaken the Forerunners on the planets they were attacking. What was to stop the Forerunners from thinking that the humans were just showing them the effects of what their bio-weapon would do? It'd cause even more outrage since they were displaying one of their own kind being subjected to what they regarded as a bio-weapon. Also, not all humans were immune which was a much more effective preservative strategy than showing all humans to be immune. if all of humanity was immune, then it wouldn't matter if the Forerunners killed off a few human survivors because they had others to spare, but by showing only some to be immune then every human life was regarded as something that had to be preserved because any one of them might hold the key to this immunity.

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  • Wow. I'm honestly glad I never tried to pursue the 343i Halo lore. All of these explanations seem like they have the potential to fail because of trillions of intelligent life forms roaming space.

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  • The "343i Halo lore" with regards to the ancient era of the universe is largely a continuation of what was set up by Bungie in IRIS and Halo 3's Terminals, those are the foundations it's built off and structured around... I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here.

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  • I just don't really like all the backstory stuff about what setup our relations with the Forerunners, Precursors, and whatnot. The whole origin story of the flood leaves me wanting more too. Another aspect I've never really figured out is what they meant when they "evolved" the Chief.

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    [quote]but the flood was infecting the humans.[/quote] not all of them, and that's the point. [quote]it seems to me that if the precursors really wanted to sell the ruse, they'd have made the humans actually immune to the effects of the flood.[/quote] but then it doesn't seem like humanity found a cure. it just seems like the flood is on humanity's side.

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  • [quote]not all of them, and that's the point.[/quote] okay, but it still doesn't erase the fact that the humans were getting infected too. [quote]but then it doesn't seem like humanity found a cure. it just seems like the flood is on humanity's side.[/quote] okay, so let me get this straight. the forerunners think that because the humans aren't getting infected (they are), they found a cure but weren't sharing it with the frunners because the flood was meant to be used a justification for taking over worlds?

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    [quote]the forerunners think that because the humans aren't getting infected (they are), [/quote] they think that because the humans [i]were[/i] seen infected and that several are [i]no longer[/i] infected that humanity developed a cure somehow. [quote]they found a cure but weren't sharing it with the frunners because the flood was meant to be used a justification for taking over worlds?[/quote] more like due to revenge against the forerunners for kind of devolving their species to apes after humanity knew that the flood wouldn't kill them.

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  • how did humanity know the flood wouldn't kill them?

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    A) they didn't. B) timeless one unveiled everything about the flood to yprin when he showed up.

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  • a) you just said they did

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    ugh poor wording. i meant as in they knew the flood wouldn't destroy their species entirely and would be back to test them again [assuming that's part of what primordial told yprin]. however, humanity was completely devolved at the time and basically couldn't give two sh1ts anymore.

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  • i'm arguing so much i've forgotten where this one has stemmed from...

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