JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Forums

Edited by Lord Keksworth: 11/16/2013 6:32:54 PM
31
He wouldn't survive more than a few days.
English

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • He'll probably just respawn.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • b-but muh plot muh shields

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Madman Mordo: 11/18/2013 7:50:14 PM
    Black Widow, Punisher, Elektra, Nick Fury and Hawkeye seem to get along just fine.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Black Widow and Fury have SHIELD and their advanced technology backing them up, Castle is too f*cking angry to die and rarely goes up against bigtime villains anyway, Elektra is considered more deadly than Logan, and Hawkeye is a ninja.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • [quote]Black Widow and Fury have SHIELD and their advanced technology backing them up[/quote] As does Chief. Spew your anti Halo hardon shit all you want, MJOLNIR is not comparable to Widow's latex suit. [quote]Castle is too f*cking angry to die and rarely goes up against bigtime villains anyway[/quote] And why would Chief go up against big time villains either? [quote]Elektra is considered more deadly than Logan,[/quote] lel. Wolvy's basically Batman if he were invulnerable. I really doubt the legitimacy of that claim. [quote]Hawkeye is a ninja[/quote] Tacit statement. The Cookie Monster is a monster, it doesn't necessarily make him a particularly formidable opponent. You know, I'm usually on the Marvel/DC side whenever it gets put up against Halo, but your whole "never picking Halo because it's Halo" mentality is getting really irritating. Deny it all you want, you always do, but it's blatantly obvious you have an anti Halo hardon the size of the Dubai Tower. You claim to hate Halo fanboys, yet you're not really differentiating yourself from them if all you're going to do is subtly vilify Halo and never concede to facts that it can occasionally win. End of rant, but I know your devils advocacy will sink in and my comment will be fruitless.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • [quote]As does Chief.[/quote] wut [i]wut[/i] Okay, give me a source for John having SHIELD on his side. Show me where SHIELD is mentioned or even implied [i]at all[/i] in Halo. It's from a [i]completely different universe[/i]. Why the f*ck would he have SHIELD and their technology? OP says he just stepped out of a portal in the Marvelverse. Is he suddenly decked out with SHIELD's best weapons? Does he suddenly have Nick Fury giving him orders the instant he starts moving? [quote]Spew your anti Halo hardon shit all you want[/quote] Aaand here we go... [quote]MJOLNIR is not comparable to Widow's latex suit.[/quote] Very true, and that latex suit isn't meant for straight-up confrontations. She's stealthy. And armed so well she can kill most enemies before they have any chance to shoot back. Point is, she survives by sticking with SHIELD, and not going up against any of the big leagues. I'm not saying she's more deadly than John - she's obviously not - but she doesn't survive in the Marvelverse by duking it out. Odds are John [i]would[/i] try to duke it out, and die when he finds out a good 50% of the Marvelverse can floor him with little to no trouble. [quote]And why would Chief go up against big time villains either?[/quote] He'd have to know a good deal of them are out of his league, you're right, and he definitely wouldn't be picking fights with everybody in sight, but what happens if he goes up against, say, the Green Goblin, or the Leader, or other technically human villains? They're street-level villains, and certainly don't [i]look[/i] like anything he can't handle, so why wouldn't John try to stop them? And only too late would he realize the Goblin is just a tad beyond what he can conceivably fight, and the Leader doesn't have to fight him straight-up when he can mind--blam!- John and be done with it. Yes, there are many villains he could best with minimal effort. Paste Pot Pete, Jigsaw, Toad, the Kingpin - how are they to fight him? Bottom line is, he's good enough to deal with most of the lower-tier Marvel characters, but if he tried going up against anything that isn't human or [i]very[/i] mildly superhuman, he'll get killed very quickly. Hence, why I gave him a few days. The guys you mentioned rarely go up against major superhumans alone. They typically have allies, or time to prepare against a specific threat. John has neither. He [i]could[/i] hook up with SHIELD as you said, which would increase his odds of his survival dramatically, but given all the shit that shows up in New York, he'd be hard-pressed surviving that long. [quote]lel. Wolvy's basically Batman if he were invulnerable. I really doubt the legitimacy of that claim.[/quote] More deadly as in she can kill more guys in less time. Obviously if she tried fighting Logan she'd get stomped. Still, she's fast enough to run past cameras without it picking her up, and one of the most skilled assassins in the Marvelverse. [url=http://marvel.wikia.com/Elektra_Natchios_%28Earth-616%29#Powers]She's also telekinetic.[/url] Fun stuff. So, really, she's not altogether comparable to John. [quote]Tacit statement. The Cookie Monster is a monster, it doesn't necessarily make him a particularly formidable opponent.[/quote] Clint gets along in the Marvelverse because he's so skilled, and armed well enough to survive superhuman threats. And he usually has the Avengers with him, so he's not the only target up against multiple bad guys out of his league. He's also an expert tactician. Chief is skilled, yes. Chief is well-armed, yes. Chief is a trained, tactical sailor with superhuman abilities and powered armor. But he's still just [i]one[/i] mild superhuman, without any allies, who happens to have a fancy suit that might as well be a museum piece given the things other people are wearing. He has no idea where he is or what he's up against, nor is he prepared to fight the various threats in Earth 616, most of which are well beyond anything he's ever faced in the past. [quote]You know, I'm usually on the Marvel/DC side whenever it gets put up against Halo, but your whole "never picking Halo because it's Halo" mentality is getting really irritating.[/quote] When Halo wins, I'll state it, and explain why. OP wanted to know how John would fare in the Marvelverse. Given he lacks most of the advantages other heroes around his level have in this universe, my guess is he wouldn't last terribly wrong. If OP gives John prep time and knowledge of what he'll be facing, I'll take back my statement and give it another thought. [quote]Deny it all you want, you always do, but it's blatantly obvious you have an anti Halo hardon the size of the Dubai Tower.[/quote] No, I just have a realistic idea of how Halo would fare when thrown up against things they couldn't logically stand up to. [quote]You claim to hate Halo fanboys, yet you're not really differentiating yourself from them if all you're going to do is subtly vilify Halo and never concede to facts that it can occasionally win.[/quote] Oh, it [i]can[/i] occasionally win. It's just that it's rarely pitted against anything it can conceivably [i]beat[/i]. [quote]devils advocacy[/quote] I'm not entirely certain you fully understand what that term means. I firmly believe in what I argue for, and I don't just argue for the sake of arguing. I always pick the side I feel would logically win. [i]That is not the Devil's Advocate, that's standard debating.[/i]

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Madman Mordo: 11/19/2013 5:19:38 PM
    [quote]Okay, give me a source for John having SHIELD on his side. Show me where SHIELD is mentioned or even implied at all in Halo. It's from a completely different universe. Why the f*ck would he have SHIELD and their technology? OP says he just stepped out of a portal in the Marvelverse. Is he suddenly decked out with SHIELD's best weapons? Does he suddenly have Nick Fury giving him orders the instant he starts moving?[/quote] I believe you stated: [quote]advanced technology[/quote] not [quote]S.H.E.I.L.D technology[/quote] MJOLNIR falls under advanced technology. Thus, Chief has advanced technology. 2+2 = 4 [quote]Very true, and that latex suit isn't meant for straight-up confrontations. She's stealthy. And armed so well she can kill most enemies before they have any chance to shoot back. Point is, she survives by sticking with SHIELD, and not going up against any of the big leagues. I'm not saying she's more deadly than John - she's obviously not - but she doesn't survive in the Marvelverse by duking it out.[/quote] Actually, the SPARTAN programme was never intended for direct confrontations or full out assault either. They were trained in stealth for black ops missions against the insurgents. Why are you applying this logic to Widow and not Chief? Oh wait yeah... [quote]Odds are John would try to duke it out, and die when he finds out a good 50% of the Marvelverse can floor him with little to no trouble.[/quote] But he wouldn't initially try "duking it out," because well, see above. [quote]He'd have to know a good deal of them are out of his league, you're right, and he definitely wouldn't be picking fights with everybody in sight, but what happens if he goes up against, say, the Green Goblin, or the Leader, or other technically human villains? They're street-level villains, and certainly don't look like anything he can't handle, so why wouldn't John try to stop them? And only too late would he realize the Goblin is just a tad beyond what he can conceivably fight, and the Leader doesn't have to fight him straight-up when he can mind--blam!- John and be done with it.[/quote] So why doesn't this happen to street level heroes like Punisher? Is he just that damn lucky? [quote]Yes, there are many villains he could best with minimal effort. Paste Pot Pete, Jigsaw, Toad, the Kingpin - how are they to fight him? Bottom line is, he's good enough to deal with most of the lower-tier Marvel characters, but if he tried going up against anything that isn't human or very mildly superhuman, he'll get killed very quickly. Hence, why I gave him a few days.[/quote] Again, see my list of characters that are blatantly inferior to John who live to see most days in the Marvel Universe. [quote]The guys you mentioned rarely go up against major superhumans alone. They typically have allies, or time to prepare against a specific threat. John has neither. He could hook up with SHIELD as you said, which would increase his odds of his survival dramatically, but given all the shit that shows up in New York, he'd be hard-pressed surviving that long.[/quote] Huh, funny. I never took Punisher for a team player, or a guy that everyone gets along with. [quote]More deadly as in she can kill more guys in less time.[/quote] [url=http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/UncannyX-Men498Large-16.jpg]I[/url] [url=http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/UncannyX-Men498Large-17.jpg]really[/url] [url=http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/UncannyX-Men498Large-19.jpg]doubt[/url] [url=http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/UncannyX-Men498Large-20.jpg]that.[/url] [quote]She's also telekinetic. Fun stuff.[/quote] "[Citation Needed]" [quote]So, really, she's not altogether comparable to John.[/quote] She's certainly more skilled. I have my doubts on whether she'd be able to hold her own with him in a fight without her watered down telepathy. [quote]Clint gets along in the Marvelverse because he's so skilled, and armed well enough to survive superhuman threats. And he usually has the Avengers with him, so he's not the only target up against multiple bad guys out of his league. He's also an expert tactician.[/quote] He only survives superhuman threats [i]because of the Avengers[/i]. He's an operative suited to quite literally, down to Earth missions and assignments. Why he'd ever be considered any sort of significant contributor to the Avengers besides being cannon fodder or cleaning up the trash is beyond me. I'm not saying Chief would fare [i]that[/i] much better, but c'mon... [quote]Chief is skilled, yes. Chief is well-armed, yes. Chief is a trained, tactical sailor with superhuman abilities and powered armor. But he's still just one mild superhuman, without any allies, who happens to have a fancy suit that might as well be a museum piece given the things other people are wearing. He has no idea where he is or what he's up against, nor is he prepared to fight the various threats in Earth 616, most of which are well beyond anything he's ever faced in the past.[/quote] Is he just suddenly being plopped into the middle of Civil War or something? You seem to have this adamant preconceived notion in your head that Chief is just immediately going to go up against cosmic level threats and entities, because it's blatantly obvious you want him to in order to lose horribly. See where I'm coming from? [quote]When Halo wins, I'll state it, and explain why. OP wanted to know how John would fare in the Marvelverse. Given he lacks most of the advantages other heroes around his level have in this universe, my guess is he wouldn't last terribly wrong.[/quote] He certainly does, but given that there are characters in the universe that lack [i]his[/i] advantages and get along just fine, gives me an indication that you're unwilling to accept the fact that John could get along in his own ball park, i.e. S.H.I.E.L.D or black ops missions. I'm not disputing that he'd get ass -blam!- in any sort of cosmic level event, but even [i]you[/i] have to admit he'd scrape by along with the "low tier" heroes as you put it. [quote]Oh, it can occasionally win. It's just that it's rarely pitted against anything it can conceivably beat.[/quote] Which in other words means "Halo will never win because I have a blatant bias against it and cherry pick facts to suit my argument" [quote]I'm not entirely certain you fully understand what that term means. I firmly believe in what I argue for, and I don't just argue for the sake of arguing. I always pick the side I feel would logically win. That is not the Devil's Advocate, that's standard debating.[/quote] No, you pick the side that Halo is pitted against [i]for the sake of arguing.[/i] Yeah yeah, "wen Hlao wins ah'll pik Hlao." I've seen that sentence before and it's just a pathetic excuse to cover up your blatant anti Halo bias.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • [quote]I believe you stated: advanced technology not S.H.E.I.L.D technology [/quote] "Black Widow and Fury have SHIELD and [b]their[/b] advanced technology backing them up" There, I even highlighted the key word in that sentence. [quote]Actually, the SPARTAN programme was never intended for direct confrontations or full out assault either. They were trained in stealth for black ops missions against the insurgents. Why are you applying this logic to Widow and not Chief?[/quote] For a stealthy black-ops sailor, John does surprisingly little sneaking around. [quote]But he wouldn't initially try "duking it out," because well, see above.[/quote] Just like he's quite pointedly [i]not done in the past[/i], right? Where was the stealth when he was fighting Regret? Or Didact? Or the battle to reach Truth? Let's look at some other, more similar scenarios. How about when he first landed on Installation 04? How about Requiem? He was running and gunning anything that moved in those instances. Sure, he's entirely [i]capable[/i] of being stealthy, but he rarely seems to use it, does he? But yes, he's able to hide away when he has to. Question is, would he feel like doing that if some seemingly normal guy wearing tights shows up declaring they're going to kill him? [quote]So why doesn't this happen to street level heroes like Punisher? Is he just that damn lucky?[/quote] Because he doesn't try fighting anybody like that directly? Hell, he tried sniping Norman Osborn in one issue but was stopped by the Sentry. Of course he wouldn't have gone up against either of them if he could avoid it. He'd get pasted. [quote]Again, see my list of characters that are blatantly inferior to John who live to see most days in the Marvel Universe.[/quote] Through skill, luck, plot power, knowing what they're up against, and avoiding anybody they know they can't fight. John has skill and luck, the latter of which isn't even a factor here. Neither is plot power. He doesn't know what he's up against, and he doesn't know who he's capable of beating. [quote]Huh, funny. I never took Punisher for a team player, or a guy that everyone gets along with.[/quote] Actually he teams up with people pretty often. Not out of any willingness to do so or anything, mind you. He never goes up against anybody extremely powerful alone, but even so, he's skilled, armed, and angry enough to be considered as dangerous as the Hulk. [quote]I really doubt that.[/quote] Implying Elektra's never cleared out a room of bad guys before. The only difference is, she wouldn't have gotten shot. [quote]"[Citation Needed]"[/quote] I see this nonissue comes up again. [quote]She's certainly more skilled. I have my doubts on whether she'd be able to hold her own with him in a fight without her watered down telepathy.[/quote] I said she's considered more deadly than Logan, not that she'd beat Logan in a fight. If you dropped the two of them into two separate arenas and had them kill dudes, Elektra would kill more of them, and faster. That's kind of what she does. [quote]He only survives superhuman threats because of the Avengers. He's an operative suited to quite literally, down to Earth missions and assignments. Why he'd ever be considered any sort of significant contributor to the Avengers besides being cannon fodder or cleaning up the trash is beyond me.[/quote] He's taken on and survived an enraged She-Hulk before, moments after she nearly killed Iron Man with one punch. That's pretty impressive. [quote]I'm not saying Chief would fare that much better, but c'mon...[/quote] If he knows what to expect, I'm sure he'd be much more effective than those jerks you mentioned a few posts ago. OP didn't say he had prep time, however. [quote]Is he just suddenly being plopped into the middle of Civil War or something? You seem to have this adamant preconceived notion in your head that Chief is just immediately going to go up against cosmic level threats and entities, because it's blatantly obvious you want him to in order to lose horribly. See where I'm coming from?[/quote] He obviously wouldn't be facing down Galactus as soon as he steps out of the portal, but anything Spider-Man level or above would break him in half fairly easily. And there's a [i]lot[/i] of those kinds of villains in Marvel. That's why I gave him a few days, because sooner or later he'd run into somebody he shouldn't have crossed and get killed for it. [quote]He certainly does, but given that there are characters in the universe that lack his advantages and get along just fine,[/quote] They make up for it with knowledge of their enemies, which is a pretty damned big advantage if you ask me. You don't need to be superhuman to use fire or sound to beat a symbiote, for instance, but John doesn't know what the hell he'll be facing. [quote]gives me an indication that you're unwilling to accept the fact that John could get along in his own ball park, i.e. S.H.I.E.L.D or black ops missions. I'm not disputing that he'd get ass -blam!- in any sort of cosmic level event, but even you have to admit he'd scrape by along with the "low tier" heroes as you put it.[/quote] Only if he's going up against really, really low-tier villains or knows who he's fighting. If he's suddenly thrown into 616 and has a moderately powerful bad guy bearing down over him, he's f*cked. If he knows how they fight beforehand, he'll stand a much greater chance. I even admitted, if OP says John gets prep time, I'll reconsider. [quote]Which in other words means "Halo will never win because I have a blatant bias against it and cherry pick facts to suit my argument"[/quote] No, it means exactly what I wrote. Don't start putting words in my mouth. [quote]No, you pick the side that Halo is pitted against for the sake of arguing. Yeah yeah, "wen Hlao wins ah'll pik Hlao." I've seen that sentence before and it's just a pathetic excuse to cover up your blatant anti Halo bias.[/quote] Because you totally know my motive behind everything I say. You've said it yourself, there's very few things that Master Chief and Halo in general can beat. If somebody made a thread pitting John up against Frank Castle or somebody on his level, hell yeah John would win. But he [i]isn't[/i] just fighting Frank Castle here. He's up against an entire universe he doesn't know or understand, and most of the guys around here would use him like a jump-rope. Do you really think John will learn about SHIELD and meet up with them as soon as he gets out of the portal? More than likely, some dude would attack and he'd intervene, and get smashed into the dirt. Even street-level villains like Scorpion or Rhino could tear him a new asshole. He stands a far greater chance of being offed by some superhuman bozo in a random bad guy attack than hooking up with an organization who already has knowledge of heroes more powerful/skilled than he who they don't bother recruiting.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Madman Mordo: 11/20/2013 2:30:48 PM
    [quote]"Black Widow and Fury have SHIELD and [b]their[/b] advanced technology backing them up" There, I even highlighted the key word in that sentence.[/quote] I think it was pretty evident I was referring to the latter part of that sentence, but whatever, go ahead make a big deal out of a trivial matter [quote]For a stealthy black-ops sailor, John does surprisingly little sneaking around.[/quote] He didn't really need to, due to that little thing called the Covenant War. [quote]Just like he's quite pointedly [i]not done in the past[/i], right? Where was the stealth when he was fighting Regret? Or Didact? Or the battle to reach Truth? Let's look at some other, more similar scenarios. How about when he first landed on Installation 04? How about Requiem? He was running and gunning anything that moved in those instances. Sure, he's entirely [i]capable[/i] of being stealthy, but he rarely seems to use it, does he?[/quote] That's because 99% of his battle included the full might of the UNSC and/or the Separatists backing him up. Play him down all you want, he isn't stupid. He's been plopped into the middle of a universe he has no background information on, and as you said, no allies either. So [i]why the hell wouldn't he do what he was originally designed to do in the first place?[/i] [quote]But yes, he's able to hide away when he has to. Question is, would he feel like doing that if some seemingly normal guy wearing tights shows up declaring they're going to kill him?[/quote] Obviously he isn't just suddenly going to magically disseminate into the shadows when the first thing he sees is a Marvel character. [quote]Because he doesn't try fighting anybody like that directly? Hell, he tried sniping Norman Osborn in one issue but was stopped by the Sentry. Of course he wouldn't have gone up against either of them if he could avoid it. He'd get pasted.[/quote] So why is this applicable to Punisher and not Chief, I ask of you for the 50th time? [quote]Through skill, luck, plot power, knowing what they're up against, and avoiding anybody they know they can't fight. John has skill and luck, the latter of which isn't even a factor here. Neither is plot power. He doesn't know what he's up against, and he doesn't know who he's capable of beating.[/quote] "So why is this applicable to them and not Chief, I ask of you for the 50th time?" [quote]Actually he teams up with people pretty often. Not out of any willingness to do so or anything, mind you. He never goes up against anybody extremely powerful alone, but even so, he's skilled, armed, and angry enough to be considered as dangerous as the Hulk.[/quote] IIRC during the Civil War era, he begrudgingly joined Cap's team when he found out the government was using super powered criminals to enforce the law. He later killed two aspiring members, who granted, were supervillains, but he did it because of his complete disregard for working in a team. The only real affiliation he's had is with the Thunderbolts, and that was only fairly recently. So no, he's not renown for working together, because that's his whole shtick; being the Lone Wolf bad-ass vigilante. So as has been said, why wouldn't Chief do what Punisher does on a regular basis? [quote]Implying Elektra's never cleared out a room of bad guys before. The only difference is, she wouldn't have gotten shot.[/quote] [url=http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4942/76519loganuke2tj4.jpg]Apparently he's a[/url] [url=http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3962/76525loganuke3jt3.jpg]bullet timer,[/url] so he's evidently capable of not being perforated with bullets, he's just never needed to because, well, not being able to die and all. [quote]I see this nonissue comes up again.[/quote] I can easily say that Chief shoots Adamantium ninja stars out of his ass without a citation. Does that make it true? [quote]I said she's considered more deadly than Logan, not that she'd beat Logan in a fight. If you dropped the two of them into two separate arenas and had them kill dudes, Elektra would kill more of them, and faster. That's kind of what she does.[/quote] Implying 200 years of combat experience combined with the deadliest melee weapons known to man would be less equipped to kill people than an assassin with telepathy. [quote]He's taken on and survived an enraged She-Hulk before, moments after she nearly killed Iron Man with one punch. That's pretty impressive.[/quote] Yes, and Punisher killed the Marvel Universe once. Plot power is a beauty. [quote]He obviously wouldn't be facing down Galactus as soon as he steps out of the portal, but anything Spider-Man level or above would break him in half fairly easily. And there's a [i]lot[/i] of those kinds of villains in Marvel.[/quote] And there's a lot of regular people/vigilantes too. What's not to say he encounters them first? [quote]That's why I gave him a few days, because sooner or later he'd run into somebody he shouldn't have crossed and get killed for it.[/quote] It's pretty mind blowing how regular civilians in the Marvel universe can live more than a couple hours without being atomised by some mystical cosmic entity isn't it? [quote]They make up for it with knowledge of their enemies, which is a pretty damned big advantage if you ask me. You don't need to be superhuman to use fire or sound to beat a symbiote, for instance, but John doesn't know what the hell he'll be facing.[/quote] You could apply that to any character being extracted from one universe and placed into another. If I was talking about Cap being plopped into the middle of the Covenant War you'd probably say he'd solo an entire fleet or something. [quote]No, it means exactly what I wrote. Don't start putting words in my mouth.[/quote] It's not putting words in your mouth if it's being heavily implied. [quote]Because you totally know my motive behind everything I say. You've said it yourself, there's very few things that Master Chief and Halo in general can beat. If somebody made a thread pitting John up against Frank Castle or somebody on his level, hell yeah John would win.[/quote] But it's the desperate attempts to try and downplay and disadvantage him. You keep trying to find situations where he'd lose horribly. You're disregarding his training and combat experience to find any feasible excuse for him to lose. Of course he would be pasted by Spider-Man, Hulk etc, but why would he even find himself in that situation in the first place unless he was suddenly transported to the Stark Tower, or Parker's flat? [quote]But he [i]isn't[/i] just fighting Frank Castle here. He's up against an entire universe he doesn't know or understand, and most of the guys around here would use him like a jump-rope. Do you really think John will learn about SHIELD and meet up with them as soon as he gets out of the portal? More than likely, some dude would attack and he'd intervene, and get smashed into the dirt. Even street-level villains like Scorpion or Rhino could tear him a new asshole. He stands a far greater chance of being offed by some superhuman bozo in a random bad guy attack than hooking up with an organization who already has knowledge of heroes more powerful/skilled than he who they don't bother recruiting.[/quote] Why is it the whole universe? In fact, why would any of the heroes fight him in the first place? And, why for that matter, is the Marvel Universe teeming with supervillians round every street corner? Oh yes that's right, Marvel suddenly ups their ante whenever anything Halo arrives in their playground, because I forgot that's what [i]your[/i] interpretation of Marvel is. Any reason to advantage them, and downplay Halo.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • [quote]I think it was pretty evident I was referring to the latter part of that sentence, but whatever, go ahead make a big deal out of a trivial matter[/quote] I didn't. You commented on what you [i]thought[/i] I said, but what I said wasn't what you thought. So I corrected you. [quote]He didn't really need to, due to that little thing called the Covenant War.[/quote] Because being able to clear out a room without being seen isn't nearly as important as spending more time, ammunition, and effort running and gunning. [quote]That's because 99% of his battle included the full might of the UNSC and/or the Separatists backing him up.[/quote] ...So what? Wouldn't it be smarter to send him somewhere where his stealth would come in more useful? Insert him into some strategic base and have him disable it without the Covenant knowing where he is? Why was he treated as a heavy-hitting gruntwork footsoldier? [quote]Play him down all you want, he isn't stupid.[/quote] I never said he was. [quote]He's been plopped into the middle of a universe he has no background information on, and as you said, no allies either. So why the hell wouldn't he do what he was originally designed to do in the first place?[/quote] That's a very good question, and one that I want to know as well in regards to his adventures on Installations 04 and 05, as well as Requiem. [quote]Obviously he isn't just suddenly going to magically disseminate into the shadows when the first thing he sees is a Marvel character.[/quote] And he [i]will[/i] run into a superpowered Marvel character. Odds are it'd be one equal or superior to him. [quote]So why is this applicable to Punisher and not Chief, I ask of you for the 50th time?[/quote] Because Chief has no idea the president is a superpowered maniac a decent five times stronger than him, who likes dressing up as a goblin and flying around tossing bombs everywhere. And he sure as hell doesn't know the guy wearing tights can casually rearrange his molecules if he pisses him off. [quote]I can easily say that Chief shoots Adamantium ninja stars out of his ass without a citation. Does that make it true?[/quote] You were quite content to go along with Thor nuking sections of the universe without proof when we were debating Thor vs Superman. [quote]Implying 200 years of combat experience combined with the deadliest melee weapons known to man would be less equipped to kill people than an assassin with telepathy.[/quote] [url=http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/43640/930734-elektra___logan.jpg]Right.[/url] [quote]Yes, and Punisher killed the Marvel Universe once. Plot power is a beauty.[/quote] They even made a big deal about him showing up, so clearly he's actually pretty good. Also, Shulkie didn't actually hit him directly. [quote]And there's a lot of regular people/vigilantes too. What's not to say he encounters them first?[/quote] Then he'll beat them. I never said he'd be murderized the instant he steps out of the portal, I said he'd likely die [i]within a few days[/i]. He eventually [i]will[/i] run into something superhuman, and he probably [i]will[/i] get killed by it. [quote]It's pretty mind blowing how regular civilians in the Marvel universe can live more than a couple hours without being atomised by some mystical cosmic entity isn't it?[/quote] Because those cosmic entities are stopped before they can do that, and they're not showing up every other Tuesday. [quote]You could apply that to any character being extracted from one universe and placed into another. If I was talking about Cap being plopped into the middle of the Covenant War you'd probably say he'd solo an entire fleet or something.[/quote] No, I would not. [quote]It's not putting words in your mouth if it's being heavily implied.[/quote] It wasn't, though, so you [i]were[/i] putting words in my mouth. [quote]But it's the desperate attempts to try and downplay and disadvantage him.[/quote] I don't [i]disadvantage[/i] him, I give him what he usually has to work with. If it's not enough, then it's not enough. [quote]You keep trying to find situations where he'd lose horribly. You're disregarding his training and combat experience to find any feasible excuse for him to lose. Of course he would be pasted by Spider-Man, Hulk etc, but why would he even find himself in that situation in the first place unless he was suddenly transported to the Stark Tower, or Parker's flat?[/quote] Because a good deal of the heroes and villains in Marvel are fully capable of stomping him, and he'll run into them sooner or later, hence, 'a few days'. Unless he knows what he's up against, he won't know who to avoid and who he can beat. If he manages to get recruited by SHIELD, great, he lives. He probably wouldn't, though. [quote]Why is it the whole universe?[/quote] Because OP said he was thrown into Earth-616. [quote]In fact, why would any of the heroes fight him in the first place?[/quote] A heavily armed man steps out of a portal in the middle of the city that gets attacked every damn hour, and they'd just be cool with it? But you're right, they wouldn't just attack him outright. Villains would, though, which is why I kept bringing up villains and not, y'know, good guys who aren't the "shoot first and ask later" kind of people. [quote]And, why for that matter, is the Marvel Universe teeming with supervillians round every street corner?[/quote] They really sort of are, actually. [quote]Oh yes that's right, Marvel suddenly ups their ante whenever anything Halo arrives in their playground, because I forgot that's what your interpretation of Marvel is. Any reason to advantage them, and downplay Halo.[/quote] I'd say the same if Marvel was going up against anything. If it's [i]all[/i] of Marvel, of course the big guns like Galactus and the Living Tribunal are involved and can stomp. If it's just Spider-Man or Captain America, of course I can bring out each and every feat to help prove they'd win. That's how vs threads work.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Are you kidding? Master Chief is like 100X what Captain America is, and Captain America seems to do fine.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Is that why in every single Cap vs Chief thread, Cap ends up winning? His feats > John's. He's faster, more skilled, better armed, fought tougher enemies...the only advantage John has is his strength, and Cap is too fast and too skilled for him to actually [i]use[/i] that superior strength.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • [quote]better armed[/quote] lolwut

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • His shield > everything John has, and he uses it as a weapon just as effectively as John uses guns, so yes, better armed.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • John would rip that Shield off of Cap's arm and cut his head off with it.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • He's not fast enough to do that.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Okay I will admit, when it comes to Marvel heroes, I am the least educated on Cap. That being said, Chief can sprint 60km/hr, has reflexes almost unseeable by the naked eye, and unbelievable strength, plus MJOLNIR and Cortana. I feel like if you had to pick one of Marvels Triple A heroes that Chief could beat in a fight, it would be Cap. All Cap has got is a shield. Granted, it is an indestructible shield, but it is no MJOLNIR. I think in this fight, Chief wins.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Lord Keksworth: 11/19/2013 2:59:33 AM
    And that's all very impressive, but Cap can dodge bullets and lasers. He's duked it out with Carnage, the Hulk, and Thunderstrike, and survived all of them. He's gone up against some pretty big bad guys and won. He's strong enough to trade punches with Iron Man for short periods of time, and skilled enough to keep up with Spider-Man when he needs to. He claims to have knowledge of all forms of (Earthly) combat. Also, Cortana is outside help. She's also dead.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Well then, I guess Cap wins!

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I certainly believe so. That isn't to say it'd be entirely one-sided, though.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Let me ask you this. Assuming Chief has his MJOLNIR armor, how much of a speed/strength advantage does Cap have?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • He's still faster by a good margin, but he's only about a fourth as strong, as he can lift around 1,000 pounds and John can lift roughly two tons. He's still more than strong enough to knock John around though.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I think you're delusional

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • And I'm certain you're wrong.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, if you prove me wrong, but I just don't see how a WWII era super solider could beat a super solider from hundreds of years in the future. Especially when you look at the specs for the MJOLNIR armor. Albeit I don't know that much about Captain America, so as far as I'm concerned it's still up in the air, but for now I'm sticking with Master Chief.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

You are not allowed to view this content.
;
preload icon
preload icon
preload icon