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originally posted in: China vs. USA: Who would win?
9/4/2013 3:50:49 AM
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America. Like, by a long shot... Let's just assume for a moment that no other countries get involved, since that introduces too many factors to discuss in one post. (This doesn't count for Military Bases owned by either of the two in other countries.) [quote]Seriously, we have a HUGE advantage over them in most categories. They have what, 1 Carrier in service, 1 in production? I don't know if it's even that. America consistently has TEN TO ELEVEN CARRIERS AT ANY ONE TIME. A Carrier Group could single handedly bring a nation down to it's knees. Our Navy is huge and ridiculously powerful. Open Body of Water = Ours. Then we have the Air Force. It's huge. Really huge. Biggest and most powerful in the world. We've got planes like the F-22 Raptor and B-2 Spirit Bomber on our side. If it was all out war, imagine what the devastation that could be brought to their major cities during a raid. F-22's escorting B-2's will be a near invisible force flying straight to the heart of their country to deliver an explosive present. Even then, we still have MANY more conventional fighters (F-15, F-16, etc) at our disposal. It's no contest there. We also have the Army and the Marine Core. Sure they're smaller, but their training is worlds ahead of what the Chinese are doing, plus they are far better outfitted. China has a large army of poorly outfitted, poorly trained, poorly educated peasants who join to get away from the life of well... a peasant. We have the means of withholding a force like China's PLA until an Airstrike can be called in. Our special forces would wipe the floor with them as well.[/quote] Now that we've gotten who is more powerful out of the way, let's move onto internal structure. [quote]To put it frankly, the Chinese Militaries structure SUCKS. Their politics and general system has resulted in an environment where Generals are going to be vying for power. I don't mean one general is going to try to secure a promotion before the other guy, I mean a legitimate issue where Generals become too powerful. If you've ever looked at the assignment list for an American General, you'll notice he doesn't stick to one assignment for very long. A couple of years at the MOST. He's being transferred from job to job fairly often. He's not going to be commanding the same area throughout his career. This makes it so a General can not build an army of supporters up, who are loyal to him over the state. China however, makes this mistake. Their general's often build up power in the aforementioned way, which regularly causes issues between generals. Their whole Military is "Stove Piped", where they have General's trying to build up a more powerful army than the other Generals. They're not loyal to the state, they're loyal to themselves. In this situation, let's say a B-2 strike from earlier happens to (Read as: Intended to) take out a high ranking Communist Party Official or General. What do you think is going to happen? Are they going to promote the next guy who is the most qualified? Hell no. Their's going to be a power vacuum to be filled, and the Generals are going to be doing their damnedest to fill it, even if they are at war with us. It could turn to infighting very quickly. To put it frankly, the Chinese Military is vulnerable to being divided and conquered via a power vacuum. This is not going to happen with the American Military. Lets say that the Chinese get (Very) lucky and take out a 4-Star. Is their going to be a power vacuum? Nothing beyond some office politics that will be solved VERY quickly as the next guy is promoted, or another one is flown in. The American Military is unified against a common enemy. The Chinese Military is constantly on the edge of splintering.[/quote] We've discussed who is most powerful and some of the internal logistics of each military, but what about geographical location and tactical advantages? [quote]Let's say that each Nation declares war on the other. Where is the fight going to happen? I'll tell you. China. You see, their's this thing separating China and the US. It's called the Pacific Ocean. It happens to be very large. Now, China's biggest advantage is its large army. Problem is, they don't have the capacity to move said army across a huge body of water. We've already got major bases in Japan and South Korea. We can strike them first, right at home. We've got a network stretching across the Pacific Ocean (See: Hawaii) with many bases. Combined with our Navy, that in the event of all out war, that Water is US Property. No way is China getting anything across to the Mainland. The war is immediately on China's doorsteps. Combined with our technology (An expansive Space Surveillance system, Intelligence Network, radar, etc.) we could see any missiles coming before it hits and take it down. China has practically zero chance of hitting us where it hurts. We could start pressing them immediately in the event of an attack, and we would know it was coming before it happened as well. Right off the bat we would be destroying any units they send at us, then we would begin to return fire as we go on the offensive. If we really decided to go all WWIII on this, we could charge across Europe and begin attacking them on two fronts. Remember what happened with [url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]-godwinslaw!-[/url] Germany? (Hint: It didn't end well.) We could pound them with Airstrike after Airstrike, infiltrate their territory, and take everything of theirs.[/quote] Historically speaking, Asian Counties who have attacked America at home have had a bad time dealing with the consequences. tl;dr We have an insanely powerful military that is unified, whereas China is much weaker and could be splintered easily. We have nearly every advantage over them. In short they would lose. Big time. All this would never happen though. Our economies are too intwined and it's in both nations interests not to start WWIII.
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  • Thank you for contributing, great read!

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  • No problem. Thanks.

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  • I had a surprisingly good time reading that, thank you.

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  • No problem man. Glad you liked it.

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  • Imagine if other countries got involved. If America was attacked that would mean about 20 other countries in the NATO alliance would be forced into the war and would be against China, Iran, North Korea, a few other Middle East countries, and Russia. Russia is really the only one in that which could cause a problem with weapons and size. However, Japan would gladly bomb the -blam!- out of China and would give us easy access in the ocean. South Korea would gladly bomb the -blam!- out of North Korea and China and is right there as well. Israel provides access in the heart of the Middle East and has the best trained soldiers in the world. Then Western Europe would massively assist in restraining Russia and the other countries in the Middle East.

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  • Edited by DE4THINC4RN4TE: 9/7/2013 9:13:47 PM
    Someone sent me a message asking about it, so I'll just my reply to it here. [quote]We would still win, but it would be just that much more violent. I say at the beginning of the post I will not be including other countries due to the complexity of international treaties and law. While China and Russia would gang up, they would be facing off against North America, Western Europe, maybe some of Eastern Europe, Australia, parts of Asia, parts of the Middle East, most of Africa would most likely throw in with America since we tend to be popular in that region (Assuming we promise to pick up the economic slack left by China.), as well as a good portion of South America. If a war directly between the US, China, and Russia were to take place, it would almost certainly become WWIII very quickly. Outside of Russia and China, we would be up against parts of the Middle East/Eastern Europe, some of Asia, and possibly some resistance from countries in South America and Northern Africa. They would largely be supply their own forces, and we would have them surrounded with a much larger show of force. That's not even counting nukes. This is a very brief analysis, so as you can see dissecting this whole theoretical war would take quite some time.[/quote] That's the gist of it. America and Friends GREATLY outnumber Sino-Russia and Friends. It would not be pretty. The level of crazy would somehow get even higher if someone was stupid enough to launch a nuke.

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  • Great read!

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  • Danke

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  • Great read.

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  • Thanks.

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  • I think you're under estimating China just a bit. Last I heard, they were specifically developing vehicles and weapons designed to take us down. One example I specifically recall is a missile system designed to be launched from mobile batteries that drops in from space. The latter allows it to pierce systems to shoot said missile down as well as most protective armor plating. The icing is that it's designed to attack aircraft carriers by piercing the armored decks. They may not be a match physically but they don't need to. They'll use guerrilla warfare against us. And it'll be effective. Top that off with the fact that the Chinese have been hacking us for years and we still are not electronically secure.

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  • Guerilla warfare only works if you can't bomb the hell out of a target. If it's all out war, we can just flatten everything in our way.

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  • I'm not underestimating China. We'd take losses, but we certainly would win. As for what they are developing, we are developing things to counter it. For example, we have lasers. Lasers capable of burning through steel and taking out missiles. It's a game of trying to out develop the other guy. I just mentioned it in another post, but China has "Brain Drain". 8-9 students who go abroad to study don't come back. China loses MANY of it's best innovators and scientists to other countries, such as the US. They just don't have the structure to keep up with us, both scientifically and financially. The point about the Electronic Warfare is an interesting one. It's one of the few areas that China is on par with us in. It should be noted the US has been going after China just as aggressively as China has been going after the US. China's flaw is, once again, that it is stove piped and vulnerable as a result. As for the Guerrilla Warfare, we are much better at dealing with that now then we were back in the days of Vietnam. We must also remember that this is not a third world country like Afghanistan. China has a very large populous and army. Supporting them is going to be much more difficult to hide than some guys running around in a Jungle in Vietnam. Electronic communications are going to come into play, as well as any support lines that they will have. It just isn't as feasible for China as it is for other groups.

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  • +1000 for referencing the Brain Drain

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  • Why +1000? (Don't get me wrong, I'm taking the 1000. I got bills to pay. Just curious.)

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  • Most people are too dumb to reference it.

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  • Ah, well then thanks.

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  • The US has a national defense budget of over 600 Billion. China's is under 100 billion, and they kinda have a chance at winning. Imagine if the Chinese put that kind of money into their military. The US would meet it's match, and that's what the chinese would do if they were preparing for war with the US.

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  • The US has the industry though. The creativity and the brains for it. China's whole development mentality is to copy. Have you seen their new fighter plane? It looks a lot like our F-35, doesn't it. They don't have the innovation to keep up with us. We have so much innovation and tons of funding for it. That's why we have such an edge on every other nation. Also it's worth noting that China has a huge "Brain Drain". Something like 8 or 9 out of 10 of it's students in other countries don't come back. They lose all their innovators and brightest minds to other countries, like the US. Culturally, we are set up in a far superior way to deal with this, unlike China.

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  • US has a superior industry because they've put time and money into it. Money that they don't have nowadays. Economically, the US is in tough shape for war with a country like China. China has more money than the US at this point too. And if the Chinese are so good at copying, then they should be almost set. They just steal ideas from other. In a war, all is fair game. As long as it works.

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  • China most certainly does not have more money than the U.S. you have to remember that not all the debt we owe goes to china. They have some of our debt but not all of it. Economically, ours is still a whole lot bigger say by 10s of trillions of dollars.

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  • The US deficit is something like 97 Billion. The US is in over 16 trillion more $ in debt than China.

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  • Not just time and money, but innovation. The part about Brain Drain is important. The best and brightest either go to America, or are already there. We put money into it, as well as time, but we have creativity. That's what is important in this instant. As for the economy playing a dampening role in War, I care to disagree. Look at what happened with WWI and the "Roaring 20's" or WWII and the Great Depression. War actually helps to build up an economy. It creates a need for industry, which is filled by people, and ultimately gets money flowing. It can unite a society towards a common goal. I just can't agree that the economy would be a limiting factor. Besides, we still have a very successful economy compared to the vast majority of the world.

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  • What China would do if they were planning such a war is not let people go to school or whatever outside of China. Everyone must stay. This war, unlike either of the other great wars, would last more than 5-6 years. A prime example is Iraq. What happened there? That didn't do jack shit for the economy. It made the economy ever worse. And people are bitching about 'cutting govt. spending' and all that bullshit. With the Iron Fist of the Chinese govt, and their overpopulation, they would gather up everyone from ages 18-40 to fight in the war. Thats like 500 million soldiers. The Chinese govt wouldnt care about loss of life because of overpopulation and that means they would use their troops to more extreme degrees than US. Of course ammo and weapons production would skyrocket if there was a war so theyd all be armed. Look. Let's end this. I think the US could totally take on China, but I don't think it's as easy as it would seem today. Your points are truely great. Good day sir.

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  • 0
    You sir get a silver star for this post.

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