Senior, I think he's referring to the first time Chief got back to Earth after the original Halo, flying a Longsword without a Slipspace drive. We can fill in the blanks somehow, but the games don't actually show (canonically) how he and Johnson made it back.

They don't need to since it was explained in the book though. People generally bitch about things not being explained in a game because they are so lazy as to not being able to read a damn book despite spending all their time on the internet.

That was my point in saying anything, actually. Original reply says something about how games don't explain the return to Earth, Senior says it is explained end of Halo 2, I point out to him that first guy meant 1-2, not 2-3, so external explanation is needed. I'm with you on this.

oh i was with you too sorry if it seemed otherwise. ha

Um, it doesn't matter if Johnson was intended to be a stereotype military guy. In Halo 2, he became a main character, and if you didn't read the book, you'd have no idea how he's alive. With your logic on the brutes, all you need to know about the Didact is he is just a bad guy. So why do people complain about him and not understanding all his motives completely? (Which is dumb anyways, as watching all the terminals tells you why he Didact is the way he is). About the Elites at the end of Halo 3. Think of what you're saying. For pure example purposes, lets pit The United States vs. China. They fight, they have a war, and in the end, their leaders make up and become allies. Do you expect all people of China to suddenly like the Americans? No, because that would be ridiculous. And their "entire race acknowledged were false"? Boy, imagine if real life was like that. We tell the Middle East their Muslim gods are false, and then all fighting between them and us will stop, right? They'll all just instantly believe it right?

Because the Didact was an already established character [i]prior[/i] to Halo 4. The Brutes were something completely new, a clean slate as it were, no one had ever heard of them or knew anything about them. And being introduced as members of the Covenant, by that one fact alone we already knew a fair amount about them. And the Terminals actually don't explain anything at all, they show the exact same characteristics and mentality as in the main game, there's no character arc or progression, it's the same exact "hates all humans, would love nothing more than to kill them all" characterization that's shown in the game. In addition, the Terminals aren't even a part of the game or included in it, they're an extra on Waypoint, something that the majority of players are not going to bother with looking for. And as I already said, contradicts previously established character, both in Bungie's works, and in 343i's [i]own[/i] books. The Didact as presented in Cryptum and Primordium is [i]nothing[/i] at all like in Halo 4 in any way shape or form. Of course people are going be pissed about that. With the Elites you are forgetting, ignoring, or just plain excluding all of the information we were given about them once they started getting species-wide character development in Halo 2 and everything afterward. It was made quite clear that the Elites respected humanity and viewed them as worthy and honorable opponents, pretty much their equals. The Elites questioned [i]why[/i] Humanity hadn't been offered a place in the Covenant when every other race the empire encountered had been and just [i]what[/i] made Humanity so different that they were to exterminated when no one else was. The majority didn't do so publicly, but [i][b][u]many[/u][/b][/i] were, which is the whole entire reason why Truth cast the Elites out of the Covenant and tried to have them exterminated. Because they were questioning the Hierarchs and were completely uncontrollable, they were thinking for themselves and forming their own opinions. As for the Elites in regards to religions, this isn't like people arguing over religion or trying to pursuade someone to give up a religion in real life...the Covenant faith was actively [i]disproven[/i] there was clear and undeniable proof that the whole entire basis of the Covenant religion was false and that the Great Journey was a lie and the Forerunners not gods. And all of this evidence was being presented by the very [i]creations[/i] of the Forerunners. Guilty Spark and the Forerunners own records gave the truth on the matter and disproved the teachings of the Prophets.

The Didact was hardly established. Cryptum was not from his point of view and everything that he directly commented on clearly expressed his inner conflict with his feelings for humans who caused the death of his children. He himself directly states that there is so much conflict and hatred within him that the mantle may be beyond him. His encounter with the Gravemind only brought out the feelings he was trying to suppress which happens to humans all the time in various circumstances. There are several other factors that contributed to how he ended up but i already pointed them out in my thread and they are already shown in silentium.

The reason it's so hard for people to let go of a faith is due to how unfalsifiable most of humanity's religions are. It's really hard to find evidence that disproves the proposition that a god is timeless, spaceless, immaterial, non-corporeal, and who have no origin point. The fact that most religions today have origins based in times in human history where written records and archaeological evidence are very hard to come by, and also frequently unreliable, also grants a large degree of ambiguity and hence degree of wiggle room for people in maintaining certain beliefs. The Sangheili had a very different belief to that. They are not the same by any stretch. The Sangheili maybe believed that the Forerunners became timeless, spaceless blah blah blah but they were previously mortals according to the Sangheili's belief. They had an origin point for as to when they became Gods, and the Halo's were the thing that turned them from mortals to gods. The claim that the Halos are God-creators is very falsifiable. The idea that the Forerunners became gods is also falsifiable based on that. It was shown to the Sangheili, irrefutably so, that the Halo's destroy any living thing in their radius. You don't become a god, you just die scattered into atoms. A Forerunner monitor told them this. Their central tenet was shown to be false, and quite literally everything else based on it came tumbling down (Or should have because it is now meaningless). There is so very little ambiguity or room for interpretation in the evidence presented to the Sangheili, and it refutes such a core tenet in their faith, compared to anything that could be presented to a religious human today that trying to compare the two is not wise I feel.

Exactly, unlike the religions of Earth and the many religious beliefs mankind holds, the religious beliefs of the Covenant were very concrete, and thus easy to disprove. I don't remember if the Elites believed the Forerunners were mortals who had ascended to god-hood or not before encountering the Prophets, but that's certainly how things were in the Covenant. It'd be similar, in my mind, to comparing apples and oranges. Both are fruits, but there's not any good way to compare them because they're too different. Likewise with the Covenant religion vs human religions. There's good reason why it's proven almost completely impossible to prove many of the various religions false, when it comes to most human religions you're pretty much forced into a stance of "you either believe it, or you don't".

The issue is not all elites were part of the covenant so you can't act as if they were. meaning not all elites are going to have the same doctrine as those in the covenant.

The only Elites we ever see who were not a part of the Covenant were the Heretics in Halo 2, and we killed them all. The Covenant was uniform throughout its holdings and dissenters were dealt with brutally if their dissent was known about. Different religious or theological positions were not allowed, it was either the Prophets' way or you were dead. That was the whole reason why Truth wanted to get rid of the Elites, because they [i]were[/i] dissenting and thinking for themselves. They weren't just accepting what the Prophets said and hanging on their every word. He tried to destroy them [i]because[/i] they were becoming too independent and couldn't be controlled or pushed around anymore.

Those elites were part of the covenant at one point and we already know that not every single elite born goes to the covenant that was my point. [u]only X amount[/u] of them do and they are generally given praise. That was [b]within the covenant[/b] if you were not apart of the covenant you were fine this has been shown constantly. All the covenant requires is that each race send X amount of forces to the cause and generally they are left alone. that was directly stated in CH by one of the prophets while talking about the hunters and how foreign they are. Even in GoO one of the elites was saying how the hunters are the most alien race in the group and openly express their own culture such as reciting battle hymns, if you want those quotes i can easily provide them. in addition to one saying the covenant never conquered the jackals hence why they just hire them out. None of the races other than the elites were so blinded by the covenant ideology because it wasn't [b]their [/b]ideaology. Hunters don't care Only the dumb brutes cared Grunts were forced into acting like they cared jackals care for money Drones probably couldn't even comprehend the concept. Engineers weren't even aware. I can provide dozens of quotes supporting that non of these races honestly cared about the ideology and only followed it because they were forced to. the only reason they are in to start with is because their homeworlds were threatened to be obliterated. you can't force somebody to seriously have the same beliefs as you especially aliens.

You seem to be forgetting that they were in the Covenant for literally tens of thousands of years before the story starts, they all probably accepted the Covenant ideology by then.

how can i forget that and how does that make sense? Do you know how many religious we have that re far older than Christianity,Islam,and Judaism yet people go to them? even then not every single person falls into those groups. I don't understand how you read what i posted and then retort with that.

[quote]Um, it doesn't matter if Johnson was intended to be a stereotype military guy. In Halo 2, he became a main character, and if you didn't read the book, you'd have no idea how he's alive.[/quote]*point* *head* [quote] With your logic on the brutes, all you need to know about the Didact is he is just a bad guy.[/quote]... What? The Brutes were part of the Covenant. You were fighting the Covenant. Ergo, you were fighting Brutes. And the games tell you exactly why the Covenant, Brutes included, are fighting you. Your 'point' there is nonexistent. [quote]watching all the terminals tells you why he Didact is the way he is).[/quote]Which is the same issue as having to read the books. You have to go outside the game to find out this information that should be in the main story. That's the point. [quote]And their "entire race acknowledged were false"? Boy, imagine if real life was like that. We tell the Middle East their Muslim gods are false, and then all fighting between them and us will stop, right? They'll all just instantly believe it right?[/quote]Your silly little analogy falls flat on its face when you think about it for one second and realize one simple fact: The Elites, their ENTIRE race- with not a single person to our knowledge ever believing otherwise- were all under one sole religion. They all believed the EXACT same thing. There weren't separate religions. There weren't separate beliefs. There was one system, and one hierarchy leading from the Prophets to the Shipmasters to the rest of their race. So when the Elites found out the Prophets were lying to them and that their entire religion was false... yes, I can absolutely say that. Don't be so defensive, mate.