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6/29/2013 5:12:35 AM
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At the end of the day, they don't loose money from used games in the sense that [b]they already got their damn money from the original sale.[/b]
Now does that mean that the used games market doesn't detract sales from newer copies? well, maybe; but if developers want to keep making money then the closest they're going to get to a silver bullet is "make games that people will want to buy and budget accordingly" [i]not[/i] "take away your customer's rights and block your ears when someone calls you out on your false dichotomy"
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Edited by tjal: 6/29/2013 1:08:32 PM[quote]At the end of the day, they don't loose money from used games in the sense that they already got their damn money from the original sale. [/quote] Are you kidding me? If you buy a used game, you are NOT buying a new game. So they will sell one game less. Your argument is invalid and plain wrong. I don't even care what the price tag is, I bought exactly one used game in my life and that was because my old disc got scratched (due to my own mistake). I might be an idealist, but at least I'm supporting the business instead of only giving 90% of the profit to a shop like gamestop. Enjoy your ignorant life.
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[quote]Are you kidding me? If you buy a used game, you are NOT buying a new game. [/quote] I never claimed otherwise. [quote]So they will sell one game less. [/quote] False Dichotomy, you have no guarantee that the person who buys used games will buy new if they have no other option. [quote]Your argument is invalid and plain wrong.[/quote] Pot Kettle Black my friend. [quote]I don't even care what the price tag is, I bought exactly one used game in my life and that was because my old disc got scratched (due to my own mistake).[/quote]I believe the saying is "cool story bro" [quote]I might be an idealist, but at least I'm supporting the business instead of only giving 90% of the profit to a shop like gamestop.[/quote]Good for you, I on the other hand subscribe to the philosophy of "I like my rights as a consumer and would rather that no one took them away"-ism [quote]Enjoy your ignorant life.[/quote]Could say the same to you.
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[quote]False Dichotomy, you have no guarantee that the person who buys used games will buy new if they have no other option.[/quote] But you do have the guarantee that a person who buys a used game will not buy a new game. Therefore they will always lose profit from persons buying used games, since at least some of those would have bought the game new. [quote]Enjoy your ignorant life.[/quote] Sorry about that, was a bit pissed
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I fear we will go into circles of circles debating where dichotomies end and reality begins - the idea is that, yes, developers make no money from used games BUT, they cannot guarantee sales by removing the option of used games; so it's best for everyone to focus on some-other way of making more money (i think we all enjoy better, cheaper games, but I am no salesman) And it's fine, we can't be perfectly calm all the time; and the internet makes it far too easy to vent..........
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Well, if only one person buys a new game instead of a used game the sales will have improved. We can assume at least one person buys a new game if there is no option to buy a used game, who would have otherwise bought a used game. This is a fair assumption. Therefore the sales will improve if used games are no longer an option. However if this is for the general good of the players? No probably not, since there will be gamers who will not buy the game at all if they have to pay the full price for it. Is it for the general good of everyone who is involved with selling new games? Yes.
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[quote]make games that people will want to buy[/quote] A saying used too much and is used to imply the developer's titles are inferior or bad. Basically, "just make better games". A pretty inane statement that is of little substance.
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[quote]A saying used too much and is used to imply the developer's titles are inferior or bad. [/quote]So you want me to lie to them so i don't hurt their feelings? [quote]Basically, "just make better games". A pretty inane statement that is of little substance.[/quote] It is, like I said, the closest they have to a silver bullet - sure fire way of making more sales; as in "if you want more sales don't punish your customers, make better games"
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Edited by Hideaki Anno: 6/30/2013 2:36:53 AMMakes it seem like they purposely hold back and go, "oh no, that game is too good". Also, it implies sales correlate with game quality. In which case, CoD is among the best FPSs ever then.
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Makes it seem like suits hold back and say "it's not appealing to enough demographics, make it more cinematic look cod or something" Or it implies that badly made cash grabs don't sell well(of course there are a multitude of other factors that come into play here, used games not being one of them).
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Not really. The simplest implication you made was that sales positively correlate with quality. And so CoD is basically the best FPS ever. If you deny this and acknowledge other factors. Your original statement holds no water then and so the developer's comments cannot be so easily dismissed. With this addition, you can't arbitrarily pick and choose which factors matter. Talking about badly made cash grabs has no relevancy and is attempting to spin this in another direction.
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Well made games sell better than badly made ones, cod at the very least works competently, [b]but it's an exception, not the rule.[/b] My original statement was that this is one of the factors in why a game may or may not sell, and that the used game market is not one of those factors; there is nothing i said that is contradictory, lacking the ability to hold water, or arbitrary, nice try. i think that cash grab bit was aimed at methew idea of why "awesome" games don't sell, my bad.
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Not just CoD. Are Pokemon titles the best RPGs ever? Is FFXIII better than Dark Souls, ToV, Lost Oddyssey, etc? Okami is a bad title? Exactly on what basis can you say used games have no effect? In the early statement, I quote [quote]Now does that mean that the used games market doesn't detract sales from newer copies? well, maybe; [/quote] Not a yes or no answer. So now you dismiss it as a factor entirely? Why?
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"but it's an exception," An being the operative word; some games are just so popular that they sell no matter what. I "dismiss" it on the basis that used games don't kill games, they are not causing devs to go bankrupt, they are not causing big budget titles to flop, they are not the cancer killing the industry; they're really not doing much at all - they are doing something, that's why i said maybe - but their effect is beyond exaggerated.
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Once the exceptions start piling up, it begins to appear that the rule was called incorrectly. Exaggerating, probably, but not something that can be dismissed in its entirety.
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Edited by M37h3w3: 6/29/2013 5:20:02 AM[quote]At the end of the day, they don't loose money from used games in the sense that they already got their damn money from the original sale.[/quote] If you wanna be like that, then fine. They don't loose money from used games sales. They just fail to make enough to stay profitable. Then they get closed. For making an awesome product that "sold" really well.
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Edited by Smarkdow: 6/29/2013 5:33:16 AMIf a game sells really well and still isn't profitable for the publishers and devs, then that's indicative of a far larger problem than used games. If production costs are so high that games like Resident Evil 6 (Which sold 5-6 million copies) and Tomb Raider (Which sold 3.6 million copies in it's first month) can be considered failures by Capcom and Square Enix, then that's a problem with production costs.
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Yes, that's exactly how it works, provided you ignore the second half of my post and make some assumptions along the way(if the game really was "awesome" why didn't it sell?); It is indeed the money that they have no right to that is killing them, not any number of potential bad business and development decisions.
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[quote]provided you ignore the second half of my post[/quote] The suggestion for a magic cure all of "make AAA titles cheaper?" [quote]if the game really was "awesome" why didn't it sell?[/quote] Used games.
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[quote]The suggestion for a magic cure all of "make AAA titles cheaper?"[/quote] If you misread what i said, yes. The closest you can get is "stop throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at a game hoping it will work" (seriously, game budgets are just as bad as Hollywood ones nowadays(and that's not the only similarity unfortunately)) and "make better games so that more people will buy them"; of course both of those options take a lot more effort, planning, and overall effort than "throw money at it 'till it looks like COD or something" [quote]Used games.[/quote] Geez, it couldn't possibly be because they didn't advertise, or that they released it during a bad time for sales, or heaven forbid cod clone #12192127 and interactive-movie #18205 are actually.................bad games that aren't as awesome as they claim to be.
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[quote]The closest you can get is "stop throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at a game hoping it will work"[/quote] Would gamers actually accept it if developers stopped trying to make AAA titles? Would that even fix anything? Or would gamers just not give a -blam!- and still buy used leading to the exact same problem anyways? [quote]Geez, it couldn't possibly be because they didn't advertise,[/quote] That's a catch 22. To advertise, they have to spend money. If they spend money their game costs more and the more they have to charge and are hurt by used game sales.
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Budget correctly != kill the AAA industry Everyone should at the lest take a lesson from From Software, they made a game of more or less AAA quality and they did so with such a good budget that their "low" sales (see 2 million or so) was enough to make it a huge comercial success; [i]meanwhile in America...........[/i] Advertise != break the bank Again, you don't need to spend tens of millions or hundreds of millions on games for it to sell - you certainly don't need to break the bank trying to advertise (And i'm not going to foot the bill of their bad investments)
