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originally posted in:Secular Sevens
4/11/2013 3:03:45 AM
10
Hm. Okay, say you were on a boat or ship in the middle of an ocean travelling from point A to point B. As you are travelling, it becomes dark, the moon is revealed and a violent storm comes and the ocean water begins to create waves. Your boat / ship is rocking left and right and you really feel like this isn't good. Steering the boat to the right direction becomes hard and you realize now that surviving isn't a guarantee. Will you just be okay with it and say 'well okay, if I die, then I die.' Supposed to fell off that ship into the ocean, chances are, the cold water will put you in shock and you just wont be able to swim but you WILL still try to move around in the water, you WILL still try to survive even though you are in no position to survive. That is having faith, having faith for something to happen. Everyone has 'faith' in that sense because even a baby, not one person, will not try to survive if he is tossed off a ship into the Ocean, even if they are on a ship of people who hate him and the people toss him off and there is no way of him to survive or be rescued, he is still going to try to move around and move his hands and kick his feet and try to live. If you are in that position, kicking your feet and trying to live becomes almost like a natural reaction because of you having faith.
I personally think that faith is valued because it gives meaning and motivation in a sense. For example, say my friend's mom has an incurable disease and the doctor says that she is going to die in a few days, they will still have faith because it helps people move on, it gives people motivation to move on. No matter how horrific a situation is, NO ONE likes to / will just give up, no one will, the feeling of just giving up on something and letting yourself or something go away when you dont want it to doesn't feel good and no one can stand it, that is why people create this thing called 'faith' because it gets rid of that feeling which no one can stand up and face. That feeling of hopelessness and the feeling that you want something but cannot have it / that feeling when you dont want something to happen but all facts say that it will happen.
Do you get what i'm trying to say? That's just my two cents :s
English
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[quote]Hm. Okay, say you were on a boat or ship in the middle of an ocean travelling from point A to point B. As you are travelling, it becomes dark, the moon is revealed and a violent storm comes and the ocean water begins to create waves. Your boat / ship is rocking left and right and you really feel like this isn't good. Steering the boat to the right direction becomes hard and you realize now that surviving isn't a guarantee. Will you just be okay with it and say 'well okay, if I die, then I die.' Supposed to fell off that ship into the ocean, chances are, the cold water will put you in shock and you just wont be able to swim but you WILL still try to move around in the water, you WILL still try to survive even though you are in no position to survive. That is having faith, having faith for something to happen. Everyone has 'faith' in that sense because even a baby, not one person, will not try to survive if he is tossed off a ship into the Ocean, even if they are on a ship of people who hate him and the people toss him off and there is no way of him to survive or be rescued, he is still going to try to move around and move his hands and kick his feet and try to live. If you are in that position, kicking your feet and trying to live becomes almost like a natural reaction because of you having faith.[/quote] That's not faith, it's instinct.
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You clearly have no understanding of what instinct is.
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No, he was correct. That is instinct.
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Edited by Seggi: 4/13/2013 8:39:49 AMWell, I'm not a psychologist, so if there's some technical definition I'm unaware of feel free to explain the difference, but, either way, I think you could understand my point were you not being intentionally obtuse.
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I understand you point, and I'm not saying it's wrong besides your definitions of instincts being inaccurate. Instincts are hardwired biological behaviors that are a result of a stimulus. In his post, he was just basically going over the will to survive. Some people don't even have that will.
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Like, I said, that's a technical definition. I wasn't using that definition.
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That sounds like a really epistemologically unsound way of obtaining knowledge.
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Like suppose your friend is told that his mom is going to die in 3 days from an incurable disease. Obviously, he's not going to say okay and live with it, he is going to deny it. But if all the facts say that it is true, then what makes him okay with denying it? Faith, because faith still gives him the small hope he needs. It feels good to have faith in that sense. And then say after 3 and a half days, he goes to his mom and finds that she is still breathing, and the forth day, she can talk, the friends faith increase, it is restored. It just feels good to have faith. And some people who believe in religion take faith to a higher level, a level where they can pray to God and ask God for something and that there might be chances of it actually happening. So if that same friend was religious and felt that God is one his side and that he worships the true God and if that friend is told that his mom is going to die in 3 days, he will go home and pray to the God to make himself feel better, to convince himself that things will be okay and how he wants it to be. Faith is good in the sense that it gives people hope for things which are not likely or things which facts prove otherwise, or just anything in general. That is what I think.
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[quote]Faith is good in the sense that it gives people hope for things which [...] facts prove otherwise[/quote] How is that good?
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Okay, so you agree that faith is epistemologically unsound?
