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3/16/2013 5:15:25 AM
15
I'm a Mississippian and i'd would like to say a few things.
teachers dont MAKE US PRAY. most of the prayer in school is over the inercom during football games before the game.
this is how it works: in school there's a prayer list in the morning by the bible club, during the morning announcement we have a moment of silence. THEN YOU CAN PRAY. nothing is forced on you. also keep in mind that MS is the most religious state in the country.
As for you OP. it's sorry pieces of scum like you that needs to GTFO of this country. we have right of religion. no one is getting forced to do anything thing they dont want to. so pack you stuff and go some where like china where everyone else hates god.
English
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How would you feel if it was a Satanic Book Club offering that moment of silence?
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i'd probably laugh knowing that no one would have the balls to do that.
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[quote]I'm a Mississippian and i'd would like to say a few things.[/quote] Great, it's nice to hear from someone who is from the state. [quote]teachers dont MAKE US PRAY. most of the prayer in school is over the inercom during football games before the game.[/quote] Prayer at a school sponsored event by a student who is fulfilling an official role for the school (announcer) is still school sanctioned and supported prayer. That's the problem, I'm afraid. [quote]this is how it works: in school there's a prayer list in the morning by the bible club,[/quote] I'm confused, what is this exactly? [quote]during the morning announcement we have a moment of silence. THEN YOU CAN PRAY. nothing is forced on you. also keep in mind that MS is the most religious state in the country.[/quote] Well, there's a clear difference between a moment of silence in the morning and someone on the intercom saying a Hail Mary. I'm fine with the former, the ladder is what bothers me. [quote]As for you OP. it's sorry pieces of scum like you that needs to GTFO of this country.[/quote] Insults! Cute. [quote]we have right of religion. no one is getting forced to do anything thing they dont want to.[/quote] Yes, but the government has no right to sanction support for religion, which is what's happening here. [quote]so pack you stuff and go some where like china where everyone else hates god.[/quote] China's worse about state sponsored religious beliefs than we are, so it would make no logical sense for me to go there. Are you at all rational?
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[quote] Prayer at a school sponsored event by a student who is fulfilling an official role for the school (announcer) is still school sanctioned and supported prayer. That's the problem, I'm afraid. ladder is what bothers me. [/quote] Nobody said anything about a student fulfilling an official role for the school. So I guess you have no problem with it. Also, what ladder?
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[quote][quote] Prayer at a school sponsored event by a student who is fulfilling an official role for the school (announcer) is still school sanctioned and supported prayer. That's the problem, I'm afraid. ladder is what bothers me. [/quote] Nobody said anything about a student fulfilling an official role for the school. So I guess you have no problem with it.[/quote] So how exactly would a public prayer be done at an event [i]without[/i] the use of school resources? They have to have a podium to advance their prayers (the P.A. system, for example), which is the school physically supporting the spread of religion to the masses. That breaks the establishment cause of the constitution.
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Edited by Kamots: 3/16/2013 5:52:38 AMSo should the school not allow any sort of prayer on its grounds or inside its rooms and buildings? Those are school resources, and it could also be seen as the spread of religion. So, does that mean that schools in that way are breaking the establishment clause? Should a student be kicked out of the school permanently for speaking to their friend about religion?
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Edited by Diplomat: 3/16/2013 6:10:40 AM[quote]So should the school not allow any sort of prayer on its grounds or inside its rooms and buildings? Those are school resources, and it could also be seen as the spread of religion.[/quote] Rooms cannot be used to spread information, they are just units where students gather for class. P.A. systems, on the other hand, are resources directly aimed at spreading information.
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Pencils and paper can be used in the spreading of information, as can school computers. In fact, pencils, for one type of item, are specifically made with the use of communication in mind. From what you are saying, a school can expel a student for righting something religious on a piece of paper that the school provides with a pencil the school provides. And also, the grounds of the school, being a place where students meet and socialize, can be the site of where religious information is passed. Students have used school grounds to pass that information around. Something does not need to be a form of communication to help the spread of information.
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[quote]Pencils and paper can be used in the spreading of information, as can school computers. In fact, pencils, for one type of item, are specifically made with the use of communication in mind. From what you are saying, a school can expel a student for righting something religious on a piece of paper that the school provides with a pencil the school provides.[/quote] If a student writes on a piece of paper something religious, and then proceeds to put that up on a message board or a hallway or room, then the school should take it down. Expelling them seems a tad extreme. [quote]And also, the grounds of the school, being a place where students meet and socialize, can be the site of where religious information is passed. Students have used school grounds to pass that information around. Something does not need to be a form of communication to help the spread of information.[/quote] Alright, I'll level with you. If a student starts screaming their prayers in the commons where they are FORCING everyone to listen to them, then that would be an improper use of government property. If the school allows that to occur, then obviously they're facilitating the spread of a religious message. However, when one is softly praying with their friends, no one is being forced to listen, and no one is being prostelyzed.
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Edited by Daniel Fortesque: 3/16/2013 5:21:22 AM[quote]As for you OP. it's sorry pieces of scum like you that needs to GTFO of this country. we have right of religion. no one is getting forced to do anything thing they dont want to. so pack you stuff and go some where like china where everyone else hates god.[/quote] No actually you don't have the right to religion in schools.
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Edited by OaklandPaintbalr: 3/16/2013 5:17:49 AMEven if the prayer is optional, you're still violating the establishment clause of the 1st amendment. You're also violating the Equal protection clause of the 14th amendment. Mandatory or optional, it makes no difference. Stop trampling on my constitution.
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Edited by the Han: 3/16/2013 5:30:26 AMwhat about the part of "prohibiting the exercise of" clause of the first amendment?
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Edited by OaklandPaintbalr: 3/16/2013 5:39:51 AMIt means government can't stop you from practicing your religion. In combination, the two clauses mean that government cannot promote religion nor prohibit it. It must take a neutral standpoint. Government cannot offer a prayer in public school. But students can get together and pray if they like. The difference is that one is government-sponsored, and the other is not. The government cannot sponsor religion. Government-sponsored prayer? Unconstitutional. Students making a bible club and praying? Fine. See the difference? One is state-sponsored, the other is not.
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Edited by the Han: 3/16/2013 5:53:35 AMi see your point and in literal cases you are correct. it's wrong according to the constitution(govt sponsor prayer) thanx for being more specific. but isn't the whole article about students praying aloud? or students praying over the intercom? which we already had the right to do? i also would like to point out that just because it's "constitutional" doesn't mean it's moral to people( not saying i hate the constitution). look at example of the right to bear arms. everyone here thinks its out dated and not important.
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[quote]i see your point and in literal cases you are correct. it's wrong according to the constitution(govt sponsor prayer) thanx for being more specific. but isn't the whole article about students praying aloud? or students praying over the intercom? which we already had the right to do? [/quote] The problem is that the state is sponsoring the prayers. [quote]i also would like to point out that just because it's "constitutional" doesn't mean it's moral to people( not saying i hate the constitution). look at example of the right to bear arms. everyone here thinks its out dated and not important.[/quote] You are absolutely right. However, morals are subjective. They vary from person to person. That's the problem with morals, there is no one set "code" that every single person can agree upon and follow. What is moral to you, may be immoral to me. Your personal morality may not be a good indicator of what is actually right and wrong.
