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2/4/2013 11:19:30 PM
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What I don't get is the people saying "We're fighting for the rights of others." Yes, we are, but is it a worthwhile fight? We're fighting to [i]change an entire culture[/i]. No amount of bullets, assassinations, and bombings is going to do that. It's just not. If people hate something, or don't believe in something, they're not going to be changed by the US military coming in and saying "Stop that! You are now a democratic country that believes in equal rights for all, and free speech, and ideological freedom, despite the fact that you haven't been that way for decades, if not longer!" It just won't work, and the idea that it will is foolish. I'm not saying "leave everyone alone and they'll work out their own problems eventually," but at the same time, I kind of am. You have to wait for people to want change before you can fight to defend it. Look at the American south. Even after the Civil War (which I know, wasn't originally about ending slavery), the south only grudgingly gave up its slaves, and many people there often made conditions for the newly freed blacks so poor that they essentially still were slaves. Moving forward, the civil rights movement wasn't born in the US military; it was born in the oppressed, and they sought out their own means of freedom. The time for the US military came when it was time to enforce these newly established rights for blacks, when the idea was already set and defended by the people living there. Not to mention the fact that giving blacks/minorities equal rights took the United States decades. One could argue that equal rights is still not truly achieved even today. Why, then, do we look towards other countries with problems of discrimination and inequality and say "Our military needs to protect the rights of others?" like that's a job that's easily attainable within a decent time-span? It's wishful thinking, but more dangerous, because it's a factor of the support for these long, dragging, unbelievably expensive wars.
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  • There are some things that are wrong no matter what the culture says. For instance, killing someone because they changed religions is ALWAYS wrong.

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  • It's always wrong... to us. Was it wrong to 14th century Christians? No. Am I saying I think we should support that belief in any way? No, but I am saying you can't force a radical change in opinion on these people when they're simply not willing to change. It's a horrible shame (and many people will suffer), but it's the truth (and more will suffer if you try to change it prematurely).

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  • But were they right? Did the Bible say kill Muslims during the Crusades or did a Pope (who was nothing more than a political figurehead) say to do it. Evil is evil no matter what era you live in. I realize what you are saying. We might not be able to change some people's minds (but some we can). But what do we do when the evil deeds of one people or ruler affect another, usually more helpless, people? Is there such a thing as "just war", especially when our culture is so divided on important issues?

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  • Edited by Diplomat: 2/5/2013 3:38:25 AM
    The funny thing about this post is that ball that started the change was the Federal army ensuring that equality was meet during the reconstruction. The environment that allowed for the oppressed to rise up was started through the military actions of the Union army. Lack of that, the C.R. movement would have never occurred. You are right, no amount of bullets, bombs, or shells can [i]force[/i] a culture to change. I agree 100%. However, what they can do, is create a environment within the country that encourages and fosters cultural change by creating a stable and appealing government. Not only this, though, as it is done through soft power, convincing the local population that they are best served by working with you in your efforts. Ultimately, an insurgency is the question of who should rule. Our goal in Afghanistan is to convince them that the U.S. backed government should rule.

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  • Couldn't have said it better myself. We should wait till THEY rise up, like the Egyptians, THEN help them.

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  • There was a large Afghan movement against the Taliban before we came.

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  • Edited by Dustin: 2/5/2013 3:40:56 AM
    *cough* mujaheddin *cough* edit: never mind, I read it wrong, I thought you were saying the opposite

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