fetuses are alive fetuses are humans fetuses are not persons fetuses do not have rights

Animals are not persons but they still have rights. Stupid argument.

Not the right to live (lolololololol) try again pls

They do however have the right to not be killed (unless it is a special situation). But anyway, I wasn't arguing that they should have the same rights as animals. I was arguing that you don't have to be a person to have rights, and I showed that to be true.

Okay, so let's roll with that. How does this extend to fetuses, zygotes and blastocysts having rights?

Really? I have no qualms about potentially being proven wrong in the history books. I live my life supporting abortion under the basis that we have no way of knowing when a life truely begins and that when it's done, it's done for the best interests of the mother. Not to mention requiring every person that conceives a child to birth it sounds just as barbaric. Especially considering factors such as -blam!- babies, poor incomes, pregnancies that threaten the life of the mother.

It's already an accepted fact that human life begins at conception. At that point, a genetically unique and human organism is alive and growing. The real question is where exactly "personhood" begins...that line of questioning disturbingly parallels the same line of thought as slavery and racism. [quote]Not to mention requiring every person that conceives a child to birth it sounds just as barbaric.[/quote]How is it barbaric, especially when it directly correlates to the survival of a human fetus? That mother doesn't have to grow attached to it or love it, she just has to feed it and deal with the physical symptoms for 9 months. Someone else will gladly do the real legwork of motherhood. Should rare and individual cases such as sexual assault and incest (where the child would potentially be severely handicapped, mentally or physically, and likely not survive pregnancy) be evaluated? Yes, but on that same individual level; our legal system is robust enough to be able to handle those situations. Over 1 billion abortions have been done in the past 40 years. Let that sink in just a bit. 1 billion. One billion humans have been killed. Not just humans though: fetuses. Not even babies. More fragile than babies. Humans that above any others are desperately dependent on the mother. And worst of all, our society says it's okay. Our government says it's okay. Our goddamn government says it's okay to kill a human just because it's still at a particular stage of development. Just because it's convenient. Just because it's unwanted. Just because we don't give a shit. It's inexcusable. Hitler indirectly killed 7 million humans, and he's the epitome of evil. We, as a race, have decided that it's okay for 1.28 billion humans to be killed. Imagine how much more contempt we would hold for Hitler, or Stalin, or Pot, or Mao if they had murdered millions of babies. Their names would probably be blacklisted from history. And yet, the U.N. claims they are worthy of special care. http://www.unicef.org/lac/spbarbados/Legal/global/General/declaration_child1959.pdf And the U.S. consider it a crime to harm a fetus. http://www.nrlc.org/Unborn_Victims/ I think a question which sits in the back of every "pro-choice" person's mind, tucked away in the darkness, is, "what if we're wrong?" That should be terrifying. That should be embarrassing, and shameful, and horrifying. I sincerely hope you read all this, and that you think very hard on your opinion on whether killing an unborn human is acceptable. Sterilize the subject if you need to by calling it a fetus rather than a child; a 'parasite' rather than a human; an inconvenience rather than a responsibility; the woman's body rather than a separate, living organism. Think long and hard about this.

[quote]It's already an accepted fact that human life begins at conception.[/quote] Accepted fact by whom? Those who are religious? Yes. By the scientific community at large? No. There is no line in the sand that says when a person is a person and when a person isn't a clump of cells. [quote]How is it barbaric, especially when it directly correlates to the survival of a human fetus? That mother doesn't have to grow attached to it or love it, she just has to feed it and deal with the physical symptoms for 9 months. Someone else will gladly do the real legwork of motherhood.[/quote] I think there's something traumatizing about carrying the baby of the man who -blam!- you. Nor do I see people clamoring over themselves to adopt unwanted children. If it doesn't get adopted, it's her responsibility. State will punish her if she doesn't care for it. And if she doesn't love it, you're just breeding a -blam!-ed up person. [quote]Think long and hard about this.[/quote] I am. I want you to think about something too: Know why you can't buy wire coat hangers anymore?

-It's a scientifically verified fact that at conception, a human organism entirely separate genetically from its mother and father is growing. Definitions of life are qualitative, yet the fetus still fulfills them. -Of course women who have been sexually assaulted will be traumatized, especially if they become pregnant because they were unable or unwilling to get access to a morning-after pill. However, ending a human life as treatment for that trauma is unacceptable. Should a mother with PPD kill her newborn to deal with her depression? Of course not. As for adoption...there are in fact thousands of people clamoring for unwanted children. The adoption system for infants is incredibly backlogged. -My local grocery store sells wire coat hangers...I understand your point, but just because murders will happen regardless of law doesn't mean we ought to just abolish that same law.

[quote]-It's a scientifically verified fact that at conception, a human organism entirely separate genetically from its mother and father is growing. Definitions of life are qualitative, yet the fetus still fulfills them.[/quote] Alive in like how a tree is alive? How a clump of cells is alive? Sure. Alive as in a small child or a baby? No. There's no brain. There's no brain stem. It's not alive in the same sense as you and me or even a baby. [quote]Should a mother with PPD kill her newborn to deal with her depression?[/quote] Very big difference between a newborn child and a day/week old fetus. Not to mention that she's in a compromised state with PPD. [quote]Of course not. As for adoption...there are in fact thousands of people clamoring for unwanted children. The adoption system for infants is incredibly backlogged.[/quote] Keyword is infants. White infants though. Damaged kids, twins, colored kids are apparently being ignored. They've taken to exporting black/mexican/mixed/nonwhite babies. Instead they get to live out their days being a burden on taxpayers and being raised without a mother or a father and then kicked out at 18. [quote]I understand your point, but just because murders will happen regardless of law doesn't mean we ought to just abolish that same law.[/quote] Yet you're willing to let these people harm themselves through infection with the potential for death.

Gotta love how turkey didn't respond to this. There's a big difference between "Clump of cells" alive and "baby alive" like you said.

...He posted it 3 hours ago and I've had class all day, settle down.

Shouldn't be on B.net before class then :P

I'm not in high school, so I've got lots of time between class, and I've been on campus since 5:45.

As soon as we establish that an unborn child is a citizen, abortion is finished.

Citizenship grants civil rights. Humanity grants human rights. Fetuses are humans, and are alive from conception. Ergo, fetuses have human rights.

"Humanity grants human rights." I disagree.