-blam!- like this is how you end up with a thousand different flavours of Fist of Havoc

[quote]-blam!- like this is how you end up with a thousand different flavours of Fist of Havoc[/quote] Hmm?

You heard me

[quote]You heard me[/quote] Quite a leap from secondary functionality to a million flavors of foh.

Nah its the rejection of any secondary function (like the other guy is doing) that gives you the fists of havoc Its how titans get pigeonholed into the single niche I am agreeing with you

[quote]Apparently the hunter class identity is….a cheap reload gimmick? Guess I’m not missing out on much maining Titan then lol[/quote] No, but a dodge is very much aligned with the hunter identity. Having a dodge that reloads is even further aligned. It would be encroaching on the titan identity for a hunter to have a shield that buffed guns just having a reload dodge on titan encroached on the hunter identity. Less similarity, the stronger the identity.

So like I said, hunter identity is solely a reload gimmick. Since your argument is class identity is broken if titans have a reloading dodge. I was under the impression is the was the whole set and functionality of the ability sets that actually determines class identity.

[quote]So like I said, hunter identity is solely a reload gimmick. Since your argument is class identity is broken if titans have a reloading dodge. I was under the impression is the was the whole set and functionality of the ability sets that actually determines class identity.[/quote] Hi there, I would suggest reading what I replied to you again. It’s a bit of a strawman to keep framing the argument as if anyone is claiming that dodge alone defines the Hunter class. Each class gained class abilities with the release of Destiny 2 and those class abilities are integral parts of each classes identity. While both Warlocks and Titans having some version of a dodge already edges into Hunter territory, having a reload built into thruster is a pretty blatant undermining of class distinction, as it directly replicates one of the Hunter’s most defining utility perks. Any class gaining an ability from another class chips away at what makes each class unique. That doesn’t mean any one ability solely defines a class. So while it’s understandable to argue that thruster could use additional functionality, it’s not a good idea to copy a class ability present on another class. The last thing the game needs is even less class distinction.

Considering you just validated my response by saying it’s their most defining perk? I seem to be able to read just fine. And I’ll say it again, I had no idea class identity is just [i]one[/i] ability. And not the sum total and how they impact gameplay. Cause that seems to be the greatest distinction and therefore identity to me. And didn’t you just admit there is overlap anyway? So it would seem that identity seems to rely on more than just one skill. Otherwise it doesn’t exist already cause the other two have it…

[quote]Considering you just validated my response by saying it’s their most defining perk? I seem to be able to read just fine. And I’ll say it again, I had no idea class identity is just [i]one[/i] ability. And not the sum total and how they impact gameplay. Cause that seems to be the greatest distinction and therefore identity to me. And didn’t you just admit there is overlap anyway? So it would seem that identity seems to rely on more than just one skill. Otherwise it doesn’t exist already cause the other two have it…[/quote] Hi there, I would again suggest rereading my reply again. It is very evident that you cannot in fact “read just fine”. I did not claim it to be the most defining perk. [quote]one of the Hunter’s most defining utility perks.[/quote] You’re once again claiming others are making arguments that they’re not actually making. Yeah, class identity is shaped by the totality of its abilities and gameplay feel. That’s exactly why giving a core utility from one class to another, especially without any functional differentiation is problematic. A little overlap isn’t new, but copying a class ability wholesale without variation is a different issue entirely, and that’s the point you keep sidestepping. You’re doing a very poor job engaging with the actual argument being made, instead, you seem more focused on debating a version of it that you’ve constructed yourself. Please fully read this one before replying.

[quote]Yeah, class identity is shaped by the totality of its abilities and gameplay feel. That’s exactly why giving a core utility from one class to another, especially without any functional differentiation is problematic.[/quote] So despite all the differences in abilities and gameplay feel between the classes due to the differences in their abilities pools, giving away a dodge with a reload ruins the hunter identity. Not the dodge just the reload… So seems like I am right. I know it must hurt, being a hunter main, to have your class reduced to such a cheap mechanic but hey… Blame Bungie lol

[quote] So despite all the differences in abilities and gameplay feel between the classes due to the differences in their abilities pools, giving away a dodge with a reload ruins the hunter identity. Not the dodge just the reload… So seems like I am right. I know it must hurt, being a hunter main, to have your class reduced to such a cheap mechanic but hey… Blame Bungie lol[/quote] A reload dodge is a hunter class ability. That’s why it shouldn’t be on a titan. Just as a really barricade is sort of the titan identity. Neither are the sole factor in a classes identity. Very simple concept. Please reread the posts, but a little slower this time. :)

And yet each class has a dodge. So the only unique trait to hunters is the reload. So hunter identity revolves around a reload mechanic. Not sure why you argued when you agree. It’s okay. We all know hunters suck outside of pvp.

[quote]And yet each class has a dodge. So the only unique trait to hunters is the reload. So hunter identity revolves around a reload mechanic. Not sure why you argued when you agree. It’s okay. We all know hunters suck outside of pvp.[/quote] No class has a class ability that dodges and reloads guns other than hunter. Marksman dodge is a hunter ability just as rally barricade is a titan ability. Rally barricade should not be on hunter and marksman dodge should not be on titan. Very simple. Reread the thread if you still don’t understand.

[quote][quote]And yet each class has a dodge. So the only unique trait to hunters is the reload. So hunter identity revolves around a reload mechanic. Not sure why you argued when you agree. It’s okay. We all know hunters suck outside of pvp.[/quote] No class has a class ability that dodges and reloads guns other than hunter. Marksman dodge is a hunter ability just as rally barricade is a titan ability. Rally barricade should not be on hunter and marksman dodge should not be on titan. Very simple. Reread the thread if you still don’t understand.[/quote] Which means the reload is the only thing setting apart the hunter, hence proving my claim that it is the unique class identifying trait for hunters. If it wasn’t, you wouldn’t say a Titan having it harms the hunter identity. You’ve made my argument for me multiple times now. Thanks.

[quote] Which means the reload is the only thing setting apart the hunter, hence proving my claim that it is the unique class identifying trait for hunters. If it wasn’t, you wouldn’t say a Titan having it harms the hunter identity. You’ve made my argument for me multiple times now. Thanks.[/quote] Are you like… not able to read. I mentioned earlier how having a dodge already encroaches on the hunter identity and further encroaching on that is not a good idea. [quote]While both Warlocks and Titans having some version of a dodge already edges into Hunter territory[/quote] Again, I suggest actually reading before you reply. I’m genuinely questioning your literacy at this point, lmao. Just as a titan should not have a healing rift, titans should not have a marksman dodge. The same applies to other things too. Should titan have double jump? No. Should hunters have warlock glide? No. Abilities like these are directly tied to a classes identity and should remain exclusive. None of these abilities on their own encompasses any classes entire identity. That really is not a complex concept. Very simple and straight forward. Read slower if you’re still confused.

[quote][quote] Which means the reload is the only thing setting apart the hunter, hence proving my claim that it is the unique class identifying trait for hunters. If it wasn’t, you wouldn’t say a Titan having it harms the hunter identity. You’ve made my argument for me multiple times now. Thanks.[/quote] Are you like… not able to read. I mentioned earlier how having a dodge already encroaches on the hunter identity and further encroaching on that is not a good idea. [quote]While both Warlocks and Titans having some version of a dodge already edges into Hunter territory[/quote] Again, I suggest actually reading before you reply. I’m genuinely questioning your literacy at this point, lmao. Just as a titan should not have a healing rift, titans should not have a marksman dodge. The same applies to other things too. Should titan have double jump? No. Should hunters have warlock glide? No. Abilities like these are directly tied to a classes identity and should remain exclusive. None of these abilities on their own encompasses any classes identity on their own. That really is not a complex concept. Very simple and straight forward. Read slower if you’re still confused.[/quote] If you confuse disagreement with illiteracy then you’re the one with the disfunction. I don’t recall there being riots when the dodges were added, so apparently it’s not that big of an issue among players and especially not Bungie since they choose to do it. False equivalence: the dodges already exists, adding functionality isn’t the same as adding whole new copies of abilities by other classes. “Abilities like these are directly tied to a classes identity and should remain exclusive. None of these abilities on their own encompasses any classes identity on their own.” Sounds awfully like a ‘they do but they don’t’ classic double standard position to me. I mean healing other players used to be the sole providence of Warlocks but they gave it to everyone and the game only got better. Maybe instead of clinging to reload for identity you should be asking for something better that’s unique to set them apart? But I mean if you like settling for scraps?

[quote] If you confuse disagreement with illiteracy then you’re the one with the disfunction. I don’t recall there being riots when the dodges were added, so apparently it’s not that big of an issue among players and especially not Bungie since they choose to do it. False equivalence: the dodges already exists, adding functionality isn’t the same as adding whole new copies of abilities by other classes. “Abilities like these are directly tied to a classes identity and should remain exclusive. None of these abilities on their own encompasses any classes identity on their own.” Sounds awfully like a ‘they do but they don’t’ classic double standard position to me. I mean healing other players used to be the sole providence of Warlocks but they gave it to everyone and the game only got better. Maybe instead of clinging to reload for identity you should be asking for something better that’s unique to set them apart? But I mean if you like settling for scraps?[/quote] There’s a difference between disagreeing with something and making a straw man argument. Non one has claimed marksman dodge is the entire identity of hunter. You’re literally having an argument with yourself and acting proud about it, lmao. Your inability to grasp how multiple things contribute to a classes identity is nothing short of comical. Are you actually that dense? Lmao. No, titans shouldn’t have a class ability from another class. Same goes for the other two classes. It’s not any more complicated than that. Read very slowly this time. Maybe you’ll get it 😉.

[quote][quote] If you confuse disagreement with illiteracy then you’re the one with the disfunction. I don’t recall there being riots when the dodges were added, so apparently it’s not that big of an issue among players and especially not Bungie since they choose to do it. False equivalence: the dodges already exists, adding functionality isn’t the same as adding whole new copies of abilities by other classes. “Abilities like these are directly tied to a classes identity and should remain exclusive. None of these abilities on their own encompasses any classes identity on their own.” Sounds awfully like a ‘they do but they don’t’ classic double standard position to me. I mean healing other players used to be the sole providence of Warlocks but they gave it to everyone and the game only got better. Maybe instead of clinging to reload for identity you should be asking for something better that’s unique to set them apart? But I mean if you like settling for scraps?[/quote] There’s a difference between disagreeing with something and making a straw man argument. Non one has claimed marksman dodge is the entire identity of hunter. You’re literally having an argument with yourself and acting proud about it, lmao. Your inability to grasp how multiple things contribute to a classes identity is nothing short of comical. Are you actually that dense? Lmao. No, titans shouldn’t have a class ability from another class. Same goes for the other two classes. It’s not any more complicated than that. Read very slowly this time. Maybe you’ll get it 😉.[/quote] I’m not the one claiming that adding reload to something treads on hunter identity, that’s you. Except you are making that argument, cause otherwise adding reload wouldnt be an issue. The dodge has already been copied and that’s the actual ability. So the damage has been done for a while and nothing came of it lol The reload is a secondary function for one of the dodges. So it’s a secondary function on one third of the class abilities. So to you a secondary function for one third of the hunter class abilities encroaches on hunter identity… So if they already have the ability and nothing happened to hunters, acting like adding the secondary reload is the straw that will break the issue is laughable. Preposterous! Outlandish! Vitriolic hyperbole! Harrumph I say!

[quote] I’m not the one claiming that adding reload to something treads on hunter identity, that’s you. Except you are making that argument, cause otherwise adding reload wouldnt be an issue. The dodge has already been copied and that’s the actual ability. So the damage has been done for a while and nothing came of it lol The reload is a secondary function for one of the dodges. So it’s a secondary function on one third of the class abilities. So to you a secondary function for one third of the hunter class abilities encroaches on hunter identity… So if they already have the ability and nothing happened to hunters, acting like adding the secondary reload is the straw that will break the issue is laughable. Preposterous! Outlandish! Vitriolic hyperbole! Harrumph I say![/quote] You’re actually the only one who has said that. Here’s a quote from you below. [quote]So like I said, hunter identity is solely a reload gimmick.[/quote] Read your own posts too please. A reload dodge is a hunter class ability. It is part of the hunter’s identity like all class abilities. No class ability for any class is a classes sole identity. Not a complicated concept...

Fully read what? You say that it’s the totality, after I said it a few times, but then say copying one ruins class identity. Kinda wanting it both ways, ain’tcha? Despite acknowledging that all three classes have a dodge anyway? Sounds more like Hunters have nothing useful going on besides a reload mechanic…