Playing the game is different thing than playing a slot machine. Some people got this done in 30 minutes, some people have done full runs 8+ hours without seeing the new content once. It is not acceptable and its one of the several design (or management) faults that has lead to this games mass decline over the years.

So let me get this straight. It's an issue because some people [u][b]made the choice [/b][/u] to play for 8 hours to get something that's completely optional and doesn't need to be done day 1. That sounds like a personal issue. Why is it that the main complaint here seems to be the requirement of needing to actually play the game? Not everything needs to be a participation trophy just because some people decided to spend a whole day playing one thing just to not get what they wanted.

[quote]So let me get this straight. It's an issue because some people [u][b]made the choice [/b][/u] to play for 8 hours to get something that's completely optional and doesn't need to be done day 1. That sounds like a personal issue. Why is it that the main complaint here seems to be the requirement of needing to actually play the game? Not everything needs to be a participation trophy just because some people decided to spend a whole day playing one thing just to not get what they wanted.[/quote] Let me clarify a few things, because I think you’re missing the core of the concern. A) This isn’t about wanting a “participation trophy” or instant gratification. It’s about how RNG gating of new and also time-limited content, which easily leads to an inconsistent and frustrating player experience. B) ”Just play the game” falls apart when the gameplay loop is dictated by chance, not skill or effort. If someone plays optimally for example 8 hours or even more and still doesn’t access new content that another player sees in 30 minutes, that’s not a healthy design — it’s a slot machine disguised as content. C) Optional content isn’t exempt from good design principles. Saying “it’s optional” doesn’t excuse poor structure. Imagine if a movie randomly showed only half its scenes to some viewers. Sure, you didn’t need to see them — but that doesn’t mean it’s good design. D) The problem isn’t time investment — it’s meaningless time investment. Players don’t mind grinding when the effort is rewarded reliably. The frustration comes from effort being disconnected from outcome, which kills motivation and engagement. E) The “personal choice” framing is misleading. No one is complaining about choosing to play — the complaint is that the game actively wastes players’ time through randomization, when it could have offered more agency. F) This design has real impact on long-term player retention. Many players have walked away not because they didn’t get what they wanted, but because they felt powerless to influence it — and that’s a failure in player experience design.

[quote]Let me clarify a few things, because I think you’re missing the core of the concern. A) This isn’t about wanting a “participation trophy” or instant gratification. It’s about how RNG gating of new and also time-limited content, which easily leads to an inconsistent and frustrating player experience.[/quote] Oh no. A game designed around random loot and random encounters in modes that can be endlessly repeated did what they always do. If someone is getting bent out of shape just because they haven't earned everything day 1 of it being released, then they should either learn to not cry about it in a public space or learn to get over it. No one cares if you didn't get it day 1. [quote]B) ”Just play the game” falls apart when the gameplay loop is dictated by chance, not skill or effort. If someone plays optimally for example 8 hours or even more and still doesn’t access new content that another player sees in 30 minutes, that’s not a healthy design — it’s a slot machine disguised as content.[/quote] Again, it's not everyone else job to deal with someone's poor luck in a game that requires a time commitment to play. Also, they are playing optimally it shouldn't take them 8 hours to do something. The areas in Nether can be completed really quickly, especially in exploration, and if the second area during the run isn't what's needed, then leave and restart. It really doesn't take as long as all the people whining about are making it out to be. [quote]C) Optional content isn’t exempt from good design principles. Saying “it’s optional” doesn’t excuse poor structure. Imagine if a movie randomly showed only half its scenes to some viewers. Sure, you didn’t need to see them — but that doesn’t mean it’s good design.[/quote] Seems designed good for me. It's not a patrol space and is a seasonal activity. Either play it to get what you want or don't. Crying about needing to play something to get something that's a random chance in a game all about random drops is pointless. Seems like a lot of you didn't bother to look into what game you bought beforehand, or you just decided to ignore how the game works while playing it constantly. [quote]D) The problem isn’t time investment — it’s meaningless time investment. Players don’t mind grinding when the effort is rewarded reliably. The frustration comes from effort being disconnected from outcome, which kills motivation and engagement.[/quote] If it's meaningless, then clearly, it is optional, and people are just using this as an excuse to cry about their own decisions. The game will do perfectly fine, if not better, without the people constantly crying about needing to actually earn things in it. [quote]E) The “personal choice” framing is misleading. No one is complaining about choosing to play — the complaint is that the game actively wastes players’ time through randomization, when it could have offered more agency.[/quote] Why does there need to be the constant ability to pick and choose everything someone wants in the game instead of just actually playing the game? And you're definitely wrong. There are quite a few people complaining about needing to play the game. That's why there's always posts every few months of people asking or demanding alternative options to earn raid loot or other loot tied to specific activities. [quote]F) This design has real impact on long-term player retention. Many players have walked away not because they didn’t get what they wanted, but because they felt powerless to influence it — and that’s a failure in player experience design.[/quote] That must be why hundreds of thousands of people are still signing in daily to play the game. It's also almost an 8 year old game, so who cares if a few people quit over the smallest things, especially when the game has been this way since d1. I've also seen countless posts by people claiming to quit for the very reason that they didn't get what they wanted. The best part is that they are always back within a week just to keep crying about needing to play the game or how they didn't get something first try.

[quote][quote]Let me clarify a few things, because I think you’re missing the core of the concern. A) This isn’t about wanting a “participation trophy” or instant gratification. It’s about how RNG gating of new and also time-limited content, which easily leads to an inconsistent and frustrating player experience.[/quote] Oh no. A game designed around random loot and random encounters in modes that can be endlessly repeated did what they always do. If someone is getting bent out of shape just because they haven't earned everything day 1 of it being released, then they should either learn to not cry about it in a public space or learn to get over it. No one cares if you didn't get it day 1. [quote]B) ”Just play the game” falls apart when the gameplay loop is dictated by chance, not skill or effort. If someone plays optimally for example 8 hours or even more and still doesn’t access new content that another player sees in 30 minutes, that’s not a healthy design — it’s a slot machine disguised as content.[/quote] Again, it's not everyone else job to deal with someone's poor luck in a game that requires a time commitment to play. Also, they are playing optimally it shouldn't take them 8 hours to do something. The areas in Nether can be completed really quickly, especially in exploration, and if the second area during the run isn't what's needed, then leave and restart. It really doesn't take as long as all the people whining about are making it out to be. [quote]C) Optional content isn’t exempt from good design principles. Saying “it’s optional” doesn’t excuse poor structure. Imagine if a movie randomly showed only half its scenes to some viewers. Sure, you didn’t need to see them — but that doesn’t mean it’s good design.[/quote] Seems designed good for me. It's not a patrol space and is a seasonal activity. Either play it to get what you want or don't. Crying about needing to play something to get something that's a random chance in a game all about random drops is pointless. Seems like a lot of you didn't bother to look into what game you bought beforehand, or you just decided to ignore how the game works while playing it constantly. [quote]D) The problem isn’t time investment — it’s meaningless time investment. Players don’t mind grinding when the effort is rewarded reliably. The frustration comes from effort being disconnected from outcome, which kills motivation and engagement.[/quote] If it's meaningless, then clearly, it is optional, and people are just using this as an excuse to cry about their own decisions. The game will do perfectly fine, if not better, without the people constantly crying about needing to actually earn things in it. [quote]E) The “personal choice” framing is misleading. No one is complaining about choosing to play — the complaint is that the game actively wastes players’ time through randomization, when it could have offered more agency.[/quote] Why does there need to be the constant ability to pick and choose everything someone wants in the game instead of just actually playing the game? And you're definitely wrong. There are quite a few people complaining about needing to play the game. That's why there's always posts every few months of people asking or demanding alternative options to earn raid loot or other loot tied to specific activities. [quote]F) This design has real impact on long-term player retention. Many players have walked away not because they didn’t get what they wanted, but because they felt powerless to influence it — and that’s a failure in player experience design.[/quote] That must be why hundreds of thousands of people are still signing in daily to play the game. It's also almost an 8 year old game, so who cares if a few people quit over the smallest things, especially when the game has been this way since d1. I've also seen countless posts by people claiming to quit for the very reason that they didn't get what they wanted. The best part is that they are always back within a week just to keep crying about needing to play the game or how they didn't get something first try.[/quote] Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail — even if we clearly disagree. I will add few more clarifications, since I think you’re arguing against points I didn’t actually make: 1. “Random loot is expected” does not equal to ”Random access to content is good.” Yes, Destiny has always had RNG elements. That’s not the issue. The issue is when access to newly released content — not loot — is purely RNG-based in a time-limited environment. That creates inconsistency in player experience, where some see it immediately, others might never see it despite their effort. That’s not about entitlement, it’s about accessibility and fairness in content exposure, not reward acquisition. 2. “It’s not everyone else’s job to deal with someone’s poor luck.” Agreed. But it is the game developer’s job to design systems that don’t arbitrarily punish a portion of the player base for playing the exact same content as others. I don’t see people demanding free loot — they’re pointing out that when content visibility depends on luck, it undermines the experience. RNG in rewards = fine. RNG in experiencing the thing at all = bad. 3. “It’s a seasonal activity, not a patrol space.” Exactly. Which makes the issue worse, not better. Time-limited seasonal content should be more accessible, not locked behind random chance. Telling people “you had your chance, RNG just didn’t favor you, too bad” isn’t good design. Players want to engage with new content when it drops — making that content behind RNG is a poor use of limited playtime. 4. “The game has always been like this.” This is not true. Destiny has gone through several evolutions in RNG structure. From token systems to crafting to deterministic grinds. Bungie has responded to feedback over the years when RNG has gone too far. So saying “it’s always been this way” ignores that many improvements were made because players gave feedback. 5. “Hundreds of thousands still play.” That’s a red herring. Player feedback is still valid even if the game has an active population. Games with millions of players make design missteps all the time, and ignoring constructive feedback because “people still log in” is how problems grow. 6. “People quit over not getting what they want.” Sure, many do. But many also quit because they feel like their time is being disrespected — not because they didn’t get the drop, but because the path to even try felt unfair or inefficient. That’s the real issue: loss of agency. I believe most are okay with effort. They’re not okay with spinning the wheel for hours just to get to the starting line. I’m not trying to convince you personally to agree — I’m raising points about the structure of content delivery that affects how people engage with the game, especially casuals and mid-core players who want to participate, but don’t have time to reroll content endlessly. That kind of experience should matter. I have no issue in this personally either; I practically spent all my free time in this game. At the same time I have a lot of worries about the games future and sustainability. I’m hardcore audience, and Bungie should not cater for my kind.

[quote]1. “Random loot is expected” does not equal to ”Random access to content is good.” Yes, Destiny has always had RNG elements. That’s not the issue. The issue is when access to newly released content — not loot — is purely RNG-based in a time-limited environment. That creates inconsistency in player experience, where some see it immediately, others might never see it despite their effort. That’s not about entitlement, it’s about accessibility and fairness in content exposure, not reward acquisition.[/quote] The game has also had repeated things with random encounters where you can't figure out beforehand what path the game will take. I've also been helping a friend who just recently got the season, and they have already caught up on thing revolving around the smg catalysts and we both have just been running through the nether to complete both of our things and can easily get through the whole thing in 20 minutes or less when that's the only things you focus on doing. [quote]2. “It’s not everyone else’s job to deal with someone’s poor luck.” Agreed. But it is the game developer’s job to design systems that don’t arbitrarily punish a portion of the player base for playing the exact same content as others. I don’t see people demanding free loot — they’re pointing out that when content visibility depends on luck, it undermines the experience. RNG in rewards = fine. RNG in experiencing the thing at all = bad.[/quote] The game has been designed around things like that since d1 and definitely won't be changing just because a few people have an issue with it. [quote]3. “It’s a seasonal activity, not a patrol space.” Exactly. Which makes the issue worse, not better. Time-limited seasonal content should be more accessible, not locked behind random chance. Telling people “you had your chance, RNG just didn’t favor you, too bad” isn’t good design. Players want to engage with new content when it drops — making that content behind RNG is a poor use of limited playtime.[/quote] It hasn't even been a full 2 days of said content being out with months left to complete all of it. Rushing through things and then complaining that it took so long or that there wasn't enough content, it doesn't accomplish anything. Also, with the gun being an exotic mission one, then after the episode it and it's catalysts will most likely be put into the rotating exotic mission playlist or have the catalysts be obtained some other way. [quote]4. “The game has always been like this.” This is not true. Destiny has gone through several evolutions in RNG structure. From token systems to crafting to deterministic grinds. Bungie has responded to feedback over the years when RNG has gone too far. So saying “it’s always been this way” ignores that many improvements were made because players gave feedback.[/quote] I'm referring to the fact that the game has always had the requirement of needing to play the game as it's main thing to earn things. The whole thing regarding the smg and it's catalysts is the fact that both are hidden and require other things to get them. [quote]5. “Hundreds of thousands still play.” That’s a red herring. Player feedback is still valid even if the game has an active population. Games with millions of players make design missteps all the time, and ignoring constructive feedback because “people still log in” is how problems grow.[/quote] Which is why bungie changes things, but even when they do, it still leads to people complaining constantly about the changes or how something isn't like what it used to be. The fact that only a small minority of the playerbase are the ones that complain about everything in the game means that bubgie shouldn't listen to just them and should go off what's being played and how many people are doing so. [quote]6. “People quit over not getting what they want.” Sure, many do. But many also quit because they feel like their time is being disrespected — not because they didn’t get the drop, but because the path to even try felt unfair or inefficient. That’s the real issue: loss of agency. I believe most are okay with effort. They’re not okay with spinning the wheel for hours just to get to the starting line.[/quote] The game has always had a time requirement to play, so expecting there to not be one, especially not even a full week into a new act, is idiotic. It also doesn't take hours unless people are intentionally doing things like playing on the higher difficulty or running around collecting everything but what they went in to get. [quote]I’m not trying to convince you personally to agree — I’m raising points about the structure of content delivery that affects how people engage with the game, especially casuals and mid-core players who want to participate, but don’t have time to reroll content endlessly.[/quote] The game has only ever been geared towards casuals for 1 year, and it nearly killed the game. Ever since then, it has never been made for a casual playerbase, and no one is forcing anyone to do anything in the game, let alone spend endless hours trying to get something day 1. Demanding the game to change to fit the needs and wants of a group that barely plays or doesn't want to do what's required will always be the worst thing any game company can do, especially when all that does is piss off the rest of the players who actually enjoy the game and want to play it the way it was intended.

[quote][quote]1. “Random loot is expected” does not equal to ”Random access to content is good.” Yes, Destiny has always had RNG elements. That’s not the issue. The issue is when access to newly released content — not loot — is purely RNG-based in a time-limited environment. That creates inconsistency in player experience, where some see it immediately, others might never see it despite their effort. That’s not about entitlement, it’s about accessibility and fairness in content exposure, not reward acquisition.[/quote] The game has also had repeated things with random encounters where you can't figure out beforehand what path the game will take. I've also been helping a friend who just recently got the season, and they have already caught up on thing revolving around the smg catalysts and we both have just been running through the nether to complete both of our things and can easily get through the whole thing in 20 minutes or less when that's the only things you focus on doing. [quote]2. “It’s not everyone else’s job to deal with someone’s poor luck.” Agreed. But it is the game developer’s job to design systems that don’t arbitrarily punish a portion of the player base for playing the exact same content as others. I don’t see people demanding free loot — they’re pointing out that when content visibility depends on luck, it undermines the experience. RNG in rewards = fine. RNG in experiencing the thing at all = bad.[/quote] The game has been designed around things like that since d1 and definitely won't be changing just because a few people have an issue with it. [quote]3. “It’s a seasonal activity, not a patrol space.” Exactly. Which makes the issue worse, not better. Time-limited seasonal content should be more accessible, not locked behind random chance. Telling people “you had your chance, RNG just didn’t favor you, too bad” isn’t good design. Players want to engage with new content when it drops — making that content behind RNG is a poor use of limited playtime.[/quote] It hasn't even been a full 2 days of said content being out with months left to complete all of it. Rushing through things and then complaining that it took so long or that there wasn't enough content, it doesn't accomplish anything. Also, with the gun being an exotic mission one, then after the episode it and it's catalysts will most likely be put into the rotating exotic mission playlist or have the catalysts be obtained some other way. [quote]4. “The game has always been like this.” This is not true. Destiny has gone through several evolutions in RNG structure. From token systems to crafting to deterministic grinds. Bungie has responded to feedback over the years when RNG has gone too far. So saying “it’s always been this way” ignores that many improvements were made because players gave feedback.[/quote] I'm referring to the fact that the game has always had the requirement of needing to play the game as it's main thing to earn things. The whole thing regarding the smg and it's catalysts is the fact that both are hidden and require other things to get them. [quote]5. “Hundreds of thousands still play.” That’s a red herring. Player feedback is still valid even if the game has an active population. Games with millions of players make design missteps all the time, and ignoring constructive feedback because “people still log in” is how problems grow.[/quote] Which is why bungie changes things, but even when they do, it still leads to people complaining constantly about the changes or how something isn't like what it used to be. The fact that only a small minority of the playerbase are the ones that complain about everything in the game means that bubgie shouldn't listen to just them and should go off what's being played and how many people are doing so. [quote]6. “People quit over not getting what they want.” Sure, many do. But many also quit because they feel like their time is being disrespected — not because they didn’t get the drop, but because the path to even try felt unfair or inefficient. That’s the real issue: loss of agency. I believe most are okay with effort. They’re not okay with spinning the wheel for hours just to get to the starting line.[/quote] The game has always had a time requirement to play, so expecting there to not be one, especially not even a full week into a new act, is idiotic. It also doesn't take hours unless people are intentionally doing things like playing on the higher difficulty or running around collecting everything but what they went in to get. [quote]I’m not trying to convince you personally to agree — I’m raising points about the structure of content delivery that affects how people engage with the game, especially casuals and mid-core players who want to participate, but don’t have time to reroll content endlessly.[/quote] The game has only ever been geared towards casuals for 1 year, and it nearly killed the game. Ever since then, it has never been made for a casual playerbase, and no one is forcing anyone to do anything in the game, let alone spend endless hours trying to get something day 1. Demanding the game to change to fit the needs and wants of a group that barely plays or doesn't want to do what's required will always be the worst thing any game company can do, especially when all that does is piss off the rest of the players who actually enjoy the game and want to play it the way it was intended.[/quote] I think we’re talking past each other a bit, so let me distill things one final time.. not to convince you, but to communicate the perspective I share, for anyone else following this thread. 1. RNG in loot is fine — RNG in content access is a design risk. Destiny has always had random elements, sure. That doesn’t mean every aspect of the game should be random forever, especially time-limited content. When people say, “I ran for hours and never saw the catalyst mission,” it’s not about entitlement, it’s about a missed opportunity for better structure. 2. “You just didn’t do it right” isn’t a valid counterargument. Saying “it only takes 20 minutes if you focus” misses the point. The issue isn’t efficiency: it’s probability. Some people get lucky, others don’t, regardless of skill or optimization. That variance creates a frustrating player experience, especially when it’s tied to accessing new content, not just completing it. 3. “It’s only been 2 days” is shortsighted. Design feedback isn’t invalid because content is fresh. If people are immediately pointing out that their effort isn’t translating into meaningful progress, that’s a sign of a UX issue. Nobody’s asking for instant gratification, they’re asking for predictable and fair access to new experiences. 4. Casual ≠ low-effort. You mentioned Destiny shouldn’t cater to casuals. But the reality is: Destiny survives because it balances its hardcore and casual audiences. If Marathon fails and D2 sales keep declining from targets (which happened to last two expansions), Bungie won’t survive. Designing with consideration for people who play a few hours a week doesn’t “kill the game” — it makes the game and business around more sustainable. This isn’t about handing things out for free, it’s about respecting player time across all playstyles. 5. “The game was always like this” isn’t an excuse. Destiny has evolved because players gave feedback like this. Crafting, vendor focusing, bad luck protection… all these systems were added to fix issues like the one we’re discussing. Saying “deal with it” ignores that the game has improved every time Bungie has not done that. 6. Dismissing criticism as “crying” shuts down real discussion. It’s totally fine if you don’t agree. But defaulting to “people are whining” or “they didn’t play it right” turns a design conversation into a personal attack. I’m not asking for special treatment, just pointing out where RNG can be refined, so time and effort matter more than luck. You’re clearly comfortable with how the system works. Others aren’t, and their feedback is still valid even if you don’t share it. At the end of the day, game is stronger when it values all its players’ time, not just the lucky or no-lifers like me, who live in the game.

[quote]1. RNG in loot is fine — RNG in content access is a design risk. Destiny has always had random elements, sure. That doesn’t mean every aspect of the game should be random forever, especially time-limited content. When people say, “I ran for hours and never saw the catalyst mission,” it’s not about entitlement, it’s about a missed opportunity for better structure.[/quote] Every aspect of the game isn't that way and complaining just because a seasonal mode is, is pointless. The structure is fine and if anyone doesn't like it then they can feel free to just go and make their own game the way they want and see how few people actually want all these things. [quote]2. “You just didn’t do it right” isn’t a valid counterargument. Saying “it only takes 20 minutes if you focus” misses the point. The issue isn’t efficiency: it’s probability. Some people get lucky, others don’t, regardless of skill or optimization. That variance creates a frustrating player experience, especially when it’s tied to accessing new content, not just completing it.[/quote] That's not what I said at all, but alright. Who cares if someone doesn't like content that a vast majority seem to enjoy? Demanding changes or calling to be catered to is the exact reason why won't ever change. No one, especially a company, will ever take those who want unnecessary changes just to shorten their play time when, in all reality, they know that they won't even use what they are complaining about getting. There are a ton of games that have exactly what those people want, so demanding that another game be changed is idiotic. [quote]3. “It’s only been 2 days” is shortsighted. Design feedback isn’t invalid because content is fresh. If people are immediately pointing out that their effort isn’t translating into meaningful progress, that’s a sign of a UX issue. Nobody’s asking for instant gratification, they’re asking for predictable and fair access to new experiences.[/quote] Very few people are pointing this out because they spent countless hours in 1 day just to farm for something that they have months to get. There is fair access, and it's very easy to predict if you have the needed area after completing the very first area based on the way the game wants you to go. [quote]4. Casual ≠ low-effort. You mentioned Destiny shouldn’t cater to casuals. But the reality is: Destiny survives because it balances its hardcore and casual audiences. If Marathon fails and D2 sales keep declining from targets (which happened to last two expansions), Bungie won’t survive. Designing with consideration for people who play a few hours a week doesn’t “kill the game” — it makes the game and business around more sustainable. This isn’t about handing things out for free, it’s about respecting player time across all playstyles.[/quote] Destiny isn't surviving due to the casual players. Most true casuals aren't spending any money on the game or it's dlc. And designing the game for the casual players is the whole reason why d2 year 1 nearly killed it. Catering to casuals and new players has never done any good for any game that requires time commitment. It did such a good job sustaining players that first year that it took a major dlc and complete rework back to the original system just to get players back. [quote]5. “The game was always like this” isn’t an excuse. Destiny has evolved because players gave feedback like this. Crafting, vendor focusing, bad luck protection… all these systems were added to fix issues like the one we’re discussing. Saying “deal with it” ignores that the game has improved every time Bungie has not done that.[/quote] And crafting has since been removed from current content and, from what it seems like, has no plans to return outside of exotics. Vendor focusing has nothing to do with any of this. There also isn't bad luck protection in the game outside of matchmaking for comp and trials. Almost every recent improvement to the game has been met with constant complaints from the casual players and praised by the ones actually playing and unlocking the content. It's also part of the reason why bungie is changing the weapons and armor in frontiers and why they immediately changed back to the time gated seasonal quest line after it retained no one with the change last season. The input of players who barely touch the game or don't even play at all mean nothing to anyone. [quote]6. Dismissing criticism as “crying” shuts down real discussion. It’s totally fine if you don’t agree. But defaulting to “people are whining” or “they didn’t play it right” turns a design conversation into a personal attack. I’m not asking for special treatment, just pointing out where RNG can be refined, so time and effort matter more than luck.[/quote] Most "criticism" posts on here are all simply summarized as "I don't like the content, so they should change it for me." If time and effort are the focus, then it's not rng. The first letter means random. Nothing about rng means do a set amount, and here's your participation trophy. [quote]You’re clearly comfortable with how the system works. Others aren’t, and their feedback is still valid even if you don’t share it. At the end of the day, game is stronger when it values all its players’ time, not just the lucky or no-lifers like me, who live in the game.[/quote] I never said they couldn't improve things. Dumbing things down isn't an improvement, though. I also never said someone else input wasn't valid. I stated my opinion, and others took issue with it. That's not my problem, nor did I force anyone to respond or read what I said. I've barely been playing the game due to other games having new content or new games coming out, and yet neither me nor the people I play have had any issues getting what we want into the game. Then again, we also understand that we made the conscious choice to play the game and go after something, which it seems a lot of people on here have forgotten.

[quote][quote]1. RNG in loot is fine — RNG in content access is a design risk. Destiny has always had random elements, sure. That doesn’t mean every aspect of the game should be random forever, especially time-limited content. When people say, “I ran for hours and never saw the catalyst mission,” it’s not about entitlement, it’s about a missed opportunity for better structure.[/quote] Every aspect of the game isn't that way and complaining just because a seasonal mode is, is pointless. The structure is fine and if anyone doesn't like it then they can feel free to just go and make their own game the way they want and see how few people actually want all these things. [quote]2. “You just didn’t do it right” isn’t a valid counterargument. Saying “it only takes 20 minutes if you focus” misses the point. The issue isn’t efficiency: it’s probability. Some people get lucky, others don’t, regardless of skill or optimization. That variance creates a frustrating player experience, especially when it’s tied to accessing new content, not just completing it.[/quote] That's not what I said at all, but alright. Who cares if someone doesn't like content that a vast majority seem to enjoy? Demanding changes or calling to be catered to is the exact reason why won't ever change. No one, especially a company, will ever take those who want unnecessary changes just to shorten their play time when, in all reality, they know that they won't even use what they are complaining about getting. There are a ton of games that have exactly what those people want, so demanding that another game be changed is idiotic. [quote]3. “It’s only been 2 days” is shortsighted. Design feedback isn’t invalid because content is fresh. If people are immediately pointing out that their effort isn’t translating into meaningful progress, that’s a sign of a UX issue. Nobody’s asking for instant gratification, they’re asking for predictable and fair access to new experiences.[/quote] Very few people are pointing this out because they spent countless hours in 1 day just to farm for something that they have months to get. There is fair access, and it's very easy to predict if you have the needed area after completing the very first area based on the way the game wants you to go. [quote]4. Casual ≠ low-effort. You mentioned Destiny shouldn’t cater to casuals. But the reality is: Destiny survives because it balances its hardcore and casual audiences. If Marathon fails and D2 sales keep declining from targets (which happened to last two expansions), Bungie won’t survive. Designing with consideration for people who play a few hours a week doesn’t “kill the game” — it makes the game and business around more sustainable. This isn’t about handing things out for free, it’s about respecting player time across all playstyles.[/quote] Destiny isn't surviving due to the casual players. Most true casuals aren't spending any money on the game or it's dlc. And designing the game for the casual players is the whole reason why d2 year 1 nearly killed it. Catering to casuals and new players has never done any good for any game that requires time commitment. It did such a good job sustaining players that first year that it took a major dlc and complete rework back to the original system just to get players back. [quote]5. “The game was always like this” isn’t an excuse. Destiny has evolved because players gave feedback like this. Crafting, vendor focusing, bad luck protection… all these systems were added to fix issues like the one we’re discussing. Saying “deal with it” ignores that the game has improved every time Bungie has not done that.[/quote] And crafting has since been removed from current content and, from what it seems like, has no plans to return outside of exotics. Vendor focusing has nothing to do with any of this. There also isn't bad luck protection in the game outside of matchmaking for comp and trials. Almost every recent improvement to the game has been met with constant complaints from the casual players and praised by the ones actually playing and unlocking the content. It's also part of the reason why bungie is changing the weapons and armor in frontiers and why they immediately changed back to the time gated seasonal quest line after it retained no one with the change last season. The input of players who barely touch the game or don't even play at all mean nothing to anyone. [quote]6. Dismissing criticism as “crying” shuts down real discussion. It’s totally fine if you don’t agree. But defaulting to “people are whining” or “they didn’t play it right” turns a design conversation into a personal attack. I’m not asking for special treatment, just pointing out where RNG can be refined, so time and effort matter more than luck.[/quote] Most "criticism" posts on here are all simply summarized as "I don't like the content, so they should change it for me." If time and effort are the focus, then it's not rng. The first letter means random. Nothing about rng means do a set amount, and here's your participation trophy. [quote]You’re clearly comfortable with how the system works. Others aren’t, and their feedback is still valid even if you don’t share it. At the end of the day, game is stronger when it values all its players’ time, not just the lucky or no-lifers like me, who live in the game.[/quote] I never said they couldn't improve things. Dumbing things down isn't an improvement, though. I also never said someone else input wasn't valid. I stated my opinion, and others took issue with it. That's not my problem, nor did I force anyone to respond or read what I said. I've barely been playing the game due to other games having new content or new games coming out, and yet neither me nor the people I play have had any issues getting what we want into the game. Then again, we also understand that we made the conscious choice to play the game and go after something, which it seems a lot of people on here have forgotten.[/quote] Your responses keep shifting the discussion toward dismissing any critique as whining, minimizing the experiences of casual players, and essentially boiling everything down to “just play more or don’t complain.” … seriously… ”… go make your own game”? Inserting superiority (“actually play the game,” “go make your own game” etc) to invalidate others is just sad. If you want to have conversation, quote my initial arguments again and come back with points that can be taken seriously. Also avoid errors next time (for example Raids do have bad luck protection - Comp and Trials don’t have MM protection at all… ). But you seem to barely play this game so I understand it is easy to miss some game changes here and there.

[quote]Your responses keep shifting the discussion toward dismissing any critique as whining, minimizing the experiences of casual players, and essentially boiling everything down to “just play more or don’t complain.” [/quote] Well, first things first. I never once said I cared about some else opinion, nor am I required to. [quote]… seriously… ”… go make your own game”? Inserting superiority (“actually play the game,” “go make your own game” etc) to invalidate others is just sad.[/quote] It's not superiority to point out that playing the game is required and so is a time commitment in this type of game. Just like pointing out that there are a ton of other games that suit whatever needs or wants people who constantly complain about the game seem not to be getting from this game. I also don't need to validate someone else's opinion on a game that has only ever been for casuals 1 time, and that 1 time nearly killed the game. [quote]If you want to have conversation, quote my initial arguments again and come back with points that can be taken seriously.[/quote] Nothing I've said isn't serious. Seems like you're the one trying to invalidate someone else response. I also never once said I wanted to have a conversation. [quote]Also avoid errors next time (for example Raids do have bad luck protection - Comp and Trials don’t have MM protection at all… ). But you seem to barely play this game so I understand it is easy to changes here and there.[/quote] What errors? Raids don't have bad luck protection unless you're considering the craftable weapons bad luck protection. Which if you are, they still require luck to get the red borders or a time commitment to get the weapons and materials to make them red borders. Comp and trials both do have bad luck protection that bungie implemented recently for its matchmaking. If a solo is put with a duo and they are up against a trio, the solo has their loss forgiven. You'd think the pvp main like yourself would know how the modes you play actually work. I also apparently play the game more than you do, seeing as how I'm actually getting the things in the game, not complaining about it, and seem to understand how the game actually works while you don't.