Imo I don’t think for Spectral is too much. As more Mobius, I think a 30% or 40% buff would be good. Mobius: [spoiler]In the case of Mobius, we have like Twilight Arsenal that deals 544k damage at base. Mind you that this super basically does a bit of everything. It does burst damage, it does roaming, it does weaken, and even allow your team to use the axes (so technically support). Mobius on the other hand does 313568 at base. Given how good deadfall is for team damage boosting Mobius will never replace it as a support super. It also seems that Mobius provides a smaller debuff than deadfall or tractor, so that even more reason not to bother using it. However if it got a damage buff that would give it something to actually distinguish it and make it worth considering. The way I see it, if twilight arsenal is allowed to be THAT good at base while covering so many bases, then surely Mobius can be allowed a 30% or 40% buff[/spoiler] Spectral: [spoiler]Currently against a boss like the ogre in grasp of avarice, its light attacks deal 12660 damage and its heavies deal 18526 damage against bosses. For context a hit from a Twilight Arsenal Relic does 23055 and throwing it (the heavy attack) deal 86012 damage (the relic is also getting a 23% buff soon). A single snap from a Song of Flame Warlock does around 48450 with another 34329 on ignition which seems to happen on every snap making it 82779 damage per snap, and they can probably due 9 of them. A grenade does 39111, and gets an ignition of 42911 every other grenade (but could probably be optimized better). Even with the upcoming 20% buff and this hypothetical 70% buff the lights of Spectral would deal something like 25826 per light attack and 37, 793 per heavy. I don’t think that would be OP or problematic, as there are super that do as clear that also deal more damage. [/spoiler]

I 100% agree that these supers need damage buffs. Mobius has the same 30% damage debuff. My point wasn’t that it doesn’t need an additional damage buff, but that a 70% damage bonus might be a bit too much for a super that already provides the highest debuff value in the game. I think a decent middle ground would be to buff the base damage by a more manageable value like 20% and then give it an additional small multiplier when hitting a void debuffed target. As for Spectral Blades, the OP is asking for a lot more than just a straight damage buff. Some of these alone would go a massive way. For example the reduction in the amount of energy drained, invis on any kill, etc. Spectral Blades (in my mind) shouldn’t be a DPS super, but an add-clear super that works really well against multiple tanky enemies. I should’ve phrased it better, but I like the Heavy attack 35% damage bonus and the light attack damage bonus after a heavy attack. It gives a sort of rhythm and promotes the “roving assassin” style the super emphasizes Just me tho :)

[quote]I 100% agree that these supers need damage buffs. Mobius has the same 30% damage debuff. My point wasn’t that it doesn’t need an additional damage buff, but that a 70% damage bonus might be a bit too much for a super that already provides the highest debuff value in the game. I think a decent middle ground would be to buff the base damage by a more manageable value like 20% and then give it an additional small multiplier when hitting a void debuffed target. As for Spectral Blades, the OP is asking for a lot more than just a straight damage buff. Some of these alone would go a massive way. For example the reduction in the amount of energy drained, invis on any kill, etc. Spectral Blades (in my mind) shouldn’t be a DPS super, but an add-clear super that works really well against multiple tanky enemies. I should’ve phrased it better, but I like the Heavy attack 35% damage bonus and the light attack damage bonus after a heavy attack. It gives a sort of rhythm and promotes the “roving assassin” style the super emphasizes Just me tho :)[/quote] Fair. In regards to debuff on Mobius, you’re correct it does apply 30%. The reason I thought it had less debuff was because I noticed that Mobius’s damage to tethered targets was lower than it should be. The first volley has no debuff, but the second should have the 30% tether debuff applied. However these are the numbers I was getting if you want to see them: [spoiler] First Tether Volley damage = 45473 * 3 Second Tether Volley damage (boss is now tethered)= 54568 * 3. However if the 30% debuff was being applied then the arrows should deal around 59114. Now here’s the really weird part: Tractor + First Volley= 59115 * 3 , great the 30% debuff is applied. Tractor (debuff from the first shot) + Second Volley = 54568 * 3. This number should have at least remained as 59115 since both tractor and tether apply a 30% debuff. When the target is tethered Mobius actually deals less damage to them than it should. This would be the equivalent of a roughly 25% damage debuff rather than a 30%. My theory is that Mobius is supposed to do Debuff damage boost (30%) + increased damage against tethered targets (~25%), but it’s bugged and only doing the increased damage towards tethered enemies and completely ignoring the boost from Debuff the boss. So if it was working correctly it would be as follows: First Volley = 45473 * 3 Second Volley = 73894 * 3 Total damage: 358101. Still pretty low but at least more acceptable compared to what it was [/spoiler] I feel like a 20-25% base damage increased would give some punch to make it actually worth considering as right now. In regard to Spectral I just don’t feel like ad clear fits the identity of the super all that well. An assassin wouldn’t really be clearing out a bunch of minions. They would use stealth to pass by minions and go after a high priority target like a mini boss or a boss and deal high damage to that target. I also just feel like there are just too many Hunter supers geared towards ad clear and not enough good damage dealing supers. Nightstalker already has Deadfall tether that just dominates ad control with ease, and can be spammed with the right setup. It being as clear wouldn’t be bad, but I feel like it would just kinda fall into being just another roaming ad clear super, and those aren’t doing too hot at the moment. Currently many weapons and abilities builds do the equivalent of roaming super level ad clear anyway.

Thanks for the feedback! I think some of these may have been miscommunicated, or maybe I just don't understand your concerns. For Vanishing Step, this is just a mirror of the changes made to Winter's Shroud, with the goal of giving it a bit more utility, since I wasn't sure what other changes or buffs could fit within this aspect or on Nightstalker in general. I should have specified, but the DR would only apply to VS itself, not all forms of Invis. For Deadfall, this wouldn't be a additional 50% to the debuff, it would just raise it to 50 from 30%. The "+" was only to indicate that it would increase the debuff it applies to Combatants to 50%. If this is something you were concerned with, I can't say that I agree, seeing as you need to sacrifice a damage super for a support one, and other sources can apply the same level of Weaken with more ease. This would only be an issue with the Prismatic melee build, imo. For Quiver, I did consider that this would make it one of the highest burst damage supers, but then Twilight Arsenal would still be 15% stronger with just the base axe throws and no active buffs. I don't think Nightstalker needs two support supers either, and the team buffs would just be a "Song of Flame" sort of support option, so it's somewhat competitive with other Hunter damage supers. For Spectral Blades, I did make this part: [quote]• After performing a Heavy attack, Light attacks deal +30% increased damage for 3s[/quote] sort of last minute when I realized, during testing, that there was no reason to use the heavy attack, since it decreases your total damage. So, you may be right on this. Otherwise, this buff would just bring it up to the same level as other roamings for total damage. Maybe I should have just made it boss damage? For Sentinel, I had high level content in mind (master raids for example), in which teammates will be killed very quickly if they haven't moved when the super ends, but I can see how it may be imbalanced in some areas. I think providing high DR to nearby teammates instead would be just as effective. For Ward, I think these buffs would be appropriate, though I probably overdid it with the "orbs on damage" bit. I think giving Bulwark Weaken punches would just be a little too enticing, which is why I made it super specific. Finally, the super refund would just be 10% for every 6 second interval, meaning if your Ward is broken within 6s of casting, you get half of it back. I guess this could be overpowered for PvP where risk is more heavily negated, though most people are likely killing you and not the Ward. For Vortex, I don't see how attaching is too much? This is just to help with consistency, because it's a weird super that's supposed to be for crowd clear and damage at the same time, but you're most likely going to throw it at a boss or tanky enemies, most of the time. For Cessation, I don't see how Volatile spread is too much? This would just give Hunters and Warlocks a taste of Controlled Demolition, and makes Titan's CD a little better, plus it has a short cooldown. For Exchange, I wanted to reprise some of the original functionality of Combat Provisions (Nightstalker subclass skill), without it being lame or too similar to Echo of Provision. This may be another miscommunication, as I meant that it would only provide 50% of the default 300% increased regen with those buffs active. For Leeching, I admit that the Overshield of Breach pickup is probably too much for a permanent feature, but I wanted to give Titans other, simpler methods of earning Overshields that isn't just through exotics, melees, or risk of the Vigilance fragment. Making this PvE exclusive would probably be fine though. For Invis, I think your concern is Titans using Bastion with Echo of Obscurity, or even just Hunter with Vanishing Step. To counteract this, the Regen could simply be disabled in PvP, or cut down to 100% or even 50% regen for Bastion, and from 20-50% when Vanishing Step is equipped. You made some very good points, but most of these ones I simply didn't understand. I will mention that one of my goals was to liberate the Subclass a bit, and not make everything restrained to a specific aspect, grenade or fragment as it feels like it is now. This may in turn lead to a bit of imbalance, but it's nothing that can't be ironed out

Hey, sorry if I didn’t explain things so well. I was tipsy and at a roller derby match (no I’m not joking lol) so it might not have come across perfectly. [quote]For Vanishing Step, this is just a mirror of the changes made to Winter's Shroud, with the goal of giving it a bit more utility, since I wasn't sure what other changes or buffs could fit within this aspect or on Nightstalker in general. I should have specified, but the DR would only apply to VS itself, not all forms of Invis. [/quote] I’d 100% agree with that. Just wording didn’t word. For Deadfall, I got what you meant, but I think it’s too much. Instead I’d go a different route… Deadfall’s main issue is that the opportunity cost is too low but increasing the debuff just further invalidates other weaken effects due to how it’s a multiplicative increase. They could do it, but they’d have to be very careful. Instead, I’d go with upping the arrow’s direct impact damage and up its duration so that the debuff can actually last most of a damage phase. (Uptime issues causes it to lose to Tractor Cannon) For Quiver, I love the heart of the pack stuff. If anything, I’d lean more into that function than just the flat damage. Utility and support should be the core of Nightstalker play. Spectral Blades I think the blanket damage bonus is just unnecessary. The super is designed as a “Roving Assassin” that you nuke a bulky enemy, go invis and repeat. I’d lean into that with the heavy attack boost and the sort of combo thing combined with the buffs you listed for the duration. I also think the volatile on light attack hits feels a bit tacked on… Total damage is a solid metric, but you also have to take into account function. Stormtrance and Burning Maul have very different functions despite being ad clear supers. Spectral Blades is a nuke for majors or mini-bosses. Make it burstier with the combo effect! Sentinel Shield giving DR is nice. I just think yet another separate overshield once the super ends is just a bit busy. Ward of Dawn. I actually think a 15% weaken on melee hit while offensive bulwark is active would be fine. Considering overshield upkeep isn’t always super easy. For the super regen, I think this would work well as an exotic but not as a general function of the super. Super regen just needs to be careful and attacking it to an exotic (like helm of Saint-14) might be a better option. :) It’s more of a weird function with attaching a damage field to fast moving bosses. The zone would just move all over the place. Anarchy’s field is tiny compared to vortex, and Dragon’s breath damage field is more intermittent. I think just upping the vortex radius (maybe add a qualifier like requiring devour) would go a long way + upping the succ impulse on PvE enemies. Cessation. I just think the effect is very strong for a fragment and steps on the toes of expulsion (I believe that’s the void explosion one). I also think the weakening blast on finish steps on Felwinter’s helm’s niche. I also think each class should have its own niches, and this gets a bit too close to controlled demo (especially on a high ability uptime class like warlock) Exchange. Thanks for the clarification, but I’m more talking about the 350% regen across the board… This is crazy strength for subclasses with very easy ways of giving enemies void buffs on Hunter and Titan. And this effect (while similar to Behemoth’s use of Whisper of Shards) requires very little investment for extreme return and can be used on builds that don’t rely on something like a slow-charging glacier grenade. Even if the effect is lower. Void hunter can basically spam this permanently with Trapper’s Ambush. For Leeching, Giving an overshield on debuffed target kills is incredibly strong. Imagine a warlock with Child getting an Overshield constantly. Or a Hunter getting both invis and an overshield with 0 effort with Stylish Executioner. I 100% agree with the overshield that doesn’t require bastion tho. I’m hoping the buffs to Unbreakable will do that :) My issue is that Invis is already crazy powerful in PvE and PvP. Giving an ability boost for using it I think is a bit much. Titans getting infinite bastions, warlocks with infinite Children, or hunters being able to get perma-invis with 0 investment. I think you could bake this into a fragment, but having this be just a function of invis is too strong. Hopefully this makes more sense. I agree with wanting to give people options on effects, but I think each subclass needs its niche effects from its aspects. It helps keep the three from feeling too same-y. As something else to add, I think Chaos Accelerant could use a little love too. Maybe let the grenades weaken for free (so warlock grenade builds don’t need to invest a fragment). I know this one sounds counter to what I just said, but I’m going on the fact that Aspects can pull from Fragment effects - but class agnostic fragments shouldn’t take to large of pieces from Aspects. :)