[quote]I'll bite, you guys say that the 10+ stat wouldn't matter to a average player. Let's say a gun has 50 stability for easy math. You add 10 stability to get 60. That's a 20% more stability added. Even if the base stat was 70, 80 is a 14.2% increase of 70. So most primaries are getting close to 15% better stats in a category.[/quote] In a vacuum id generally agree with you but 20% more stability (or any stat) doesn't necessarily mean 20% better performing even in that vacuum. And that's not taking the player in question into account. The player that are the topic of this specific post are unlikely to go flawless regularly if at all. To vastly oversimplify if an adept gun increased performance 10% a 1.0 will get less than a 2.0 would and that's assuming everything else is equal. In reality neither player is going to get that 10% and the less skilled player is more likely lacking in map knowledge, aim, movement, situational awareness,ect so in reality the worse a player is the less likely they'll see any tangible improvement at all, as their deficiencies are tied to a greater number of factors. While the opposite is also true the closer to your ceiling performance you get the more important it is to raise that ceiling. [quote]And for those who keep saying that a good role base is better than a crap roll adept. It's really easy to farm adepts. It's like every 2nd win you get one pretty much. There's actually a really strong argument that it's easier to farm the adepts than it is to relay on engram focusing.[/quote] Again I generally agree with you, but in the context of the players in question, they are probably rarely going flawless if at all. They are very unlikely to get enough adepts to reasonably get a God roll and are more likely to get a better regular roll, and usually aren't farming. In my above argument it considers -blam!- adept for both players but even that's not a realistic scenario for the likely majority of cases so the gain would be even worse than it is presented. And rng is also a factor at play I tried really hard to get an adept shayuras better than my regular, but the best I got were side grades with the adept mod included. I personally think farming trials adepts is faster and easier than gms but the argument isn't about top %ers Edit: again I have no idea why its censoring five out of five, bungie has got to get their censor bot under control

I'm not arguing that -blam!- adept isn't better than -blam!- regular. They just objectively are ,but that most ppl who complain about not getting adepts probably have other aspects of their kit and play that you yield more improvement in the context of pvp over begging for a like 5% better weapon that probably won't even be as good as the regular one they have. Edit: I have absolutely no idea why it's censoring five out of five

These weapons have drastically different stats due to differences in mag and barrel options and were guaranteed to have the same core perks. This is a bit disingenuous. An Adept weapon will at most get +10 in a stat over a non-Adept one, along with +2 (which will almost never matter) in all other stats and will still lose the mod slot (don’t discount how useful some base mods can be like Counterbalance, Backup Mag, Quick Access Sling, and Targeting Adjuster: which all come with NO downsides unlike their adept counterparts). Not Forgotten had +30 range with no real downside since the frame was already so stable (the major stat you lose being stability). There is an opportunity cost in running an Adept mod given how good many of the base mods are and how little +10 in a stat usually means on a weapon. This is also ignoring how much more difficult it is to get a perfect 5/5 Adept roll compared to a standard non-adept version, especially for average players. Adept weapons ARE better than standard ones but let’s not exaggerate how much better they are.