On the raid Subject.
First off, Day 1 Last Wish was challenging, but not the hardest Day 1 raid. The only reason so few people completed it was due to the Puzzle, which was by far, one of the most complicated Day 1 puzzles, even to this day. At a certain point, it’s not about how hard a raid is, but how difficult to understand the puzzles are, as players will grow use to the encounter, and then, find ways to easily clear out adds.
What is going to happen is that the Final Shape raid is not going to be the most mechanically difficult, but rather, it’s going to be the most challenging when it comes to execution. This is more along the lines of Spire of Stars, which was not as mechanically complex, but difficult to execute due to both the precision and the nature of the mechanics.
Mechanically challenging - Hard Puzzle
Execution Challenging - Hard to Do.
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Edited by Lucky McKillya: 1/3/2024 4:48:34 AMI was using hardest as an all inclusive word. We don't necessarily know what the puzzles are going to look like but it took the best players in the world 8 hours to beat Riven alone. I know because I watched and sure there are many variables you could use like they were fatigued and maybe if they got there earlier maybe it goes faster. I'm glad you referenced SoS because its one of the least beaten raid in the game both because the loot wasn't there but there were a ton of hoops to jump through in the final fight. Everyone had a job and had to keep it together from start to finish. I wish it wasn't in the DCV to see if it's difficulty could test today's sandbox and the types if players that now make up the majority. I want to caviat with I've cleared every raid when it was the current standard multiple times and beat LW like 5-days after it launched and before any cheese was found. I'm not pulling info off of a video a forum post. To date imo SoS and CoS were the the most mechanically difficult they have ever come up with. There are a bunch of moving pieces and your whole team needs to be on point.
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The reason I mention spire of Stars is due to the fact that Bungie is using it as its benchmark for the Final Shape Raid. Not Last Wish. That’s the reason I make a big deal about separating the two forms of difficulty. Spire is the only Raid to keep a consistent difficulty past the Day 1 unlike raids like Last Wish, which quickly became easier due to understanding the mechanics and thus, not having to focus on learning them. People became proficient in the mechanics, and thus, the raid became easy. With Spire, even if you became proficient in the mechanics, it was still “difficult” to perform, thus making it harder post day 1.
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If the Riven Cheese never existed and the Artifact was never created I'd be curious as to how many completions there would be. I be willing to bet it would be astronomically lower. Back in the day there was no such thing as over leveling and thus kept the difficulty level on par. Also, we had the pre forsaken double primary sandbox so I would again be very curious how difficult it would remain to be with todays standards.