[quote]So... 😉 now you're excited. I thought it was the most braindead route Bungie could take[/quote]? I desperately want you to know, you have the most confusing way of writing. I can't effectively interpret whether you're expressing your own opinion or commenting on my own excitement? As for myself, after slogging and snoring through 3 seasons of "meh", an Ahamkara season actually sounds enticing. If only because the last time a Ahamkara was at the center of the plot (in Forsaken) we actually had some REALLY REALLY GREAT storytelling and lore. So yes, I am excited, even if though this course of events is predictable. I digress sometimes predictable and, on course, is not a bad thing. Even within a predictable course of events, there's still plenty of room to pleasently subvert expectations. Case and point, if HBO had realized this, Season 8 Game of Thrones would've had a much more satisfying conclusion. [quote]In a response to another comment, you say you're a fan of the Awoken character arcs & I assume are aware of many of their cultural conventions like: how they talk to each other. "sister"... you've heard Mara & Petra us that language... Techeuns & Corsairs use that language.[/quote] The word they use is actually "cousin" (provided you are playing the game in English, I understand certain words don't always translate between languages), and the Awoken use this word to formally address other Awoken. Mainly those not of the Reef (the Earthborn and Awoken Guardians). It seems to be a way of showing respect for their shared origins, back in Season of the Lost, Crow once called Petra cousin only for her to harshly retort, "You are [b][i]not[/i][/b] my cousin." Those words carry a lot of weight culturally speaking for tge Awoken, as that's the rough equivalent of disowning someone or complete denial of their heritage. Obviously, Petra was (and probably still is) very angry with Crow/Uldren, and rightfully so, given the nightmarish situation he put her in while he was under Riven's influence. [quote]In the above quote, who do you think Savathun is talking about? Ahsa... whom is a cursed Alis Li... 1st Queen of the Awoken... rival of the Sovs; both Mara and her mother Osana. Riven never ran away... her story is still relevant, though[/quote] This is all wrong, Asha is proto-Worm, basically the species the Hive Worm Gods are descended from. [quote]And could there BE ANY CLEARER of a confirmation of our role since vanilla D1, "...O murderer mine".[/quote] We were only ever called "O murderer mine." At the end of the Last Wish Raid in Forsaken, otherwise this syntax had never previously applied to us, let alone before D2. [quote]"Do you know the legends"? Do you still think I was just pulling my theories from nowhere? Still? It's all the same event. Of course, the Ahamkara appeared shortly after the Traveler terraformed Venus. The Pale Heart is the singularity... the Traveler encompasses it. Time dilates based on gravity... that's what accounts for the seemingly different timelines in the lore when comparing the emergence of different factions/phenomenon. However, the distributary... the fundament... the Ahamkara... the Nine... the Awoken... the Hive came from the same event. [/quote] To be frank, none of this makes sense. Ifi am gifted with one power in this universe, it's brutal honest. [quote]I first called your attention to info... how good is your memory? 1st by talking not just about my theories, but I gave you my nickname. It's "Ghost" 😇👍💠[/quote] "By not talking about my theories" proceeds to talk about theories prior to this statement as if that'll magically gaslight me into believing it's true. [quote]2nd by calling attention to the old D1 Legends Grimoire.[/quote] You've improved in this regard. Of your few recent theories, i have read. I will applaud you for that. My theory remains the same... Mara is corrupt.[/quote]

But what you’re failing to grasp here is that I genuinely don’t care what interactions you’ve had with in the past nor who they were with. You have quite literally gone as far as to accuse me of attacking you on behalf of someone else that I’ve never interacted with - you are quite literally constructing a narrative. That’s pretty paranoid behaviour. I haven’t done or said anything misleading nor am I hiding behind anything or anyone. I was perusing the forums and saw this interaction and corrected you. The fact remains that in a constructive debate, trying to catch someone out by derailing the conversation via semantic nitpicking is unhelpful and a personal pet peeve of mine which is why I (correctly) called it out as a strawman. I have nothing to prove to you. If you want to go about your life assuming there is a secret cabal following your exploits on a game forum, that’s your prerogative. I can only base any judgement of a person based on information available to me and with each reply you further cement my characterization of you.

[quote]It's not called convergence. Maybe you need to study. The term you're looking for is "consensus".[/quote] Semantics. [quote]I'm going to remember that Osana offer... which I might be wrong about. [/quote] This is the fundamental flaw of your theory. It hinges upon an [i]idea[/i] that is not proven within the game lore itself. You can comparative analyze all you want, but until actual lore is written to back up your idea, it remains just that. You can't just make up stuff based upon things outside the game, then say that's what is happening and slap obviously incorrect lore on it as "proof." This is why people have problems with your theories. This is why people label them as fanfiction because your theories are based upon what appears to be your own fictional canon you've created to prove you theories. [quote]Here's what we do know as I've stated... I'm not going to link everything in the lore again but I have and you've seen it. Mara lied about refusing the gift... that was Alis. Mara used the 2nd and 3rd Awoken Queens as puppets. She instigated Wars and conflicts to insulate her power and take the Throne. Since Mara took the Throne it's been a dictatorship.[/quote] This is also all wrong. You wonder why people dimiss your theories. This is why, more [i]ideas[/i] that aren't based in canonical lore. This is why people call your theories "fan fiction" because they're based on a series of events that are clearly not backed up by official sources of lore. [b][i]Part[/i][/b] of the reason the Theodocrisy Wars started, weren't entirely sparked by Mara they were sparked by the conflicting ideologies of the Awoken when they incarnated within the Distributary. Mara GREATLY supported the movement to return to Sol because she knew Sol needed their help. Mara was no the only person who held this belief, if you read the Marsenna (instead of outright dismissing it) prior to Event Horizon Alis Li called for a vote to either return to Earth or stay on course. The consensus among the crew of the Exodus Green was to stay on course. Mara's whole goal in the Distributary was to return to Sol and start a new life, remained in the Reef because she didn't want to put the safety of the tens of thousands of Awoken who came with her in jeopardy (and in entry isn't even included within the Marsenna, it's in the Awoken of the Reef lorebook). [quote]Savathun has done exactly the same thing... destroyed her rivals, engineered and started every conflict.[/quote] Yeah, so have other characters in the Destiny Universe. What are you gonna try to claim next? Clovis Bray is secretly Oryx? Rasputin is Xivu Arath? [quote]So, to clarify, I was waiting for you to say it: Crota has a Throne World? And Oryx has a Throne World? Ok. AND Savathun has a Throne World.... Who else? Mara 😜. I choose my words carefully...[/quote] 🤦‍♀️ Mara has a Throne World because Eris warned her of Oryx's immanent approach and the danger he posed to Reef as well as Earth. Given this knowledge, as well as Eris, Riven, and her Techeuns' assistance, Mara carved her Throne World into the Ascendant Plane. [quote]And we find the bow of her rival Sjur in it after she was mysteriously assassinated.[/quote] Again, you're making stuff up, Sjur was Mara's lover, little narrative trope called "enemies to lovers." She was Mara's lover at the end of the Marasenna and going into the Awoken of the Reef lorebook. [quote]Just like how the Glykon was anchored & hidden in her Reef.[/quote] The Glykon is not in the Reef just near it, it's sitting derelict outside it, and the events that transpired aboard it have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Mara or the Awoken. This is stuff that's in the game, and you can't even be bothered to attempt be accurate. [quote]Just like she let Savathun escape and released her from the crystal without us.[/quote] More misinterpreted lore, Savathun had been one step ahead of Mara the entire time. Savy basically decked herself out with Hive incantations before Mara crystallized her and after Mara exorcised her Worm and broke her crystal, Savathun's spells activated basically pulling the wool over Mara's eyes to perform a bait and switch, returning Osiris to us but allowing her to escape. [quote]Just like she took the egg. [/quote] Again, MORE made up lore and unproven conjecture. We have NO IDEA how Mara got ahold of an Ahamkara egg. If anything, we are probably going to find out the truth of this next season. But given Mara's proximity to Riven, for all we know, the egg was given to her by Riven. [quote]Just like how she was in league with Riven.[/quote] Mara was never "in league" with Riven, Mara was WELL AWARE of Riven's malicious tendencies, which is why she locked away in the Keep of Voices and had the Wish Wall constructed. Mara worked with Riven because she needed her in order to accomplish her own ends, but Riven herself has always had her own agenda. [quote]Just like how she knew about the pyramid fleet but, didn't warn us.[/quote] Sure, Mara has known about a massive threat to us but hasn't been in a position to communicate effectively. First, she was dead and wandering the Ascendant Plane, then she was fighting at the edges of the system and lost contact. We didn't hear anything from or of Mara between Forsaken and Arrivals. Secondly, even Mara didn't know the full scope of threat herself, which is probably the reason she didn't tell us about it immediately. Even then, Mara has left some HUGE hints in our final visit to the Queen’s Court. She legit left holo projections of Pyramid Ships plain for us to see, and they're still there. [quote]The preponderance of the evidence is overwhelming.[/quote] The only evidence you've presented is overwhelmingly fictional. [quote]Mara is corrupt...[/quote] Mara isn't corrupt, she has yet to even steer us wrong, even in the instances where she has withheld information. She's done questionable things in her past, which leads people to mistrust her. But everything she's done from Reef Wars till now has been to protect humanity. If she were as truly selfish and corrupt as you claim, then Mara would have stabbed us in back a long time ago. If Mara were truly corrupt, then her course of actions make no sense. Everything Mara has done from the Collapse through now has been to help people. She single handedly obliterated the Fallen fleet at Ceres to stop the House of Wolves from reaching Twilight Gap and destroying the Last City. She had nothing to gain there (especially since the Wolves who surrendered to her betrayed her) but engaged in a multiple year gorilla war with the Fallen to stop them from going any further. She frigging DIED, attempting to hault Oryx's advance and had a backup plan in case things went south. She crossed the Ascendant Plane alone and returned and found her kingdom a mess. Pulled herself up the bootstraps and continued on. She fought pyramids on the fridges of the system, blew herself up in the process, and was summoned back by Eris Morn. And for what? She's never really asked us for anything in return, aside from our help dealing with Skolas (and Skolas was a threat to everyone, not just the Reef). She's sacrificed and sacrificed, put weapons in Guardian hands that she could've given to her own people, but remains subject to suspicion. At this point, she's borderline Cassandra from Greek myth, cursed with the power to true prophecy, except no one trusts her or believes her.

[quote]In the lore it says Mara told Alis the truth, then Alis gave her the mysterious artifact (which I believe is a fragment of Soteria)... then Alis just vanished, poof. [/quote] The only thing Alis ever have Mara in their exchange was a pitcher of Blackberry tea dumped on her head. After which, Alis them took Mara's parasol out of spite. [quote]The truth is Alis was cursed by Mara with the help of her mother the Witch Queen(Osana/Sathona/Savathun). That's my theory.[/quote] We have already been over a thousand times, neither Alis nor Osana left the Distributary, which is effectively a pocket universe caused by the Event Horizon singularity when the powers of Traveler and Witness clashed during the Collapse. The Distributary never had any interaction with the Hive because it was completely isolated from the Sol. [quote]Why would Alis just accept Mara's deceit? Alis was the one, not Mara, to refuse the gift on behalf of her people... but not everyone did, and Mara resented Alis for not accepting making her people Gods.[/quote] You have Alis completely confused with the Diasyrm, the Diasyrm was the one who started a war over the fact they the Awoken could've been immortal gods but weren't created as such. [quote]The Awoken are supposed to be a meritocracy; that changed with Mara & her mother. And strangely any rival of Mara, disappears... dies, gets assassinated, or is cursed. Did you know Riven used to be a confidant of Mara? How about Sjur... she was assassinated, no one knows who did it. Strange how we find her bow in a place called the "Shattered Throne" inside Eleusinia which coincidently is Queen Mara's Throne World 🤯. [/quote] The only person we have reason to suspect that Mara might've actually legitimately killed was the Diasyrm because she disappeared after seeking Mara out for the truth regarding their creation. She entered Mara's home in the Distributary and was never seen again. As for the rest of the Awoken Queens within the Distributary, they willingly stepped down from their positions, and the new Queen swere elected to replace them. In the lore patrols from Shuro Chi, we learn that Awoken does not use a typical monarchy system. Their rulers are elected by popular vote, even Mara herself was elected to be Queen when the Awoken return to Sol (keep in mind not all the Distributary Awoken returned to Sol, a majority of the Awoken remained within the Distributary). [quote]Of course Ahsa *ahem Alis. What about the 2nd & 3rd Awoken Queens? Puppets of the Sovs... starting wars, manipulating conflicts to insulate their power... all Rivals get eliminated? [/quote] They're still quite alive, they simply chose to step down from ruling just like Alis did. In other words, they basically abdicated the throne. [quote]And btw, Mara has a Throne World?!?! There's only 2 Throne Worlds that we're acquainted with... weird how there are so many similarities between Mara & the other Queen we know. [/quote] You've completely forgotten about the Oversoul Throne, aka Crota's throneworld, and the Dreadnaught to which Oryx affixed his throneworld so he could move it around with him. [quote]That's exactly what Savathun has been doing with the Hive. Mara is her mother's daughter... and her mother Osana Sov is the Witch Queen.[/quote] On the day Savathun is revealed as Osana, I'll eat my own cloak.