Imo Immaru's whole "you're a mindless murderer, they're just lumps of meat to you" spiel falls completely flat for two reasons:
-the player character has nearly no agency in a meta sense, a character questioning our decisions has no impact because we don't get to make many real decisions as far as the actual story. This sort of criticism should've been towards a character like Saint (if he hadn't already gone through that arc seasons ago) or towards the Vanguard as an organization, it means nothing to have an npc criticize our choices when we aren't the ones making them.
-the guardian/vanguard, historically, tends to be extremely merciful when possible. At the start of this season's seasonal quest, we tell Immaru to call off his Hive that are defending Savathun's spire , and he's like "lol nah." My dude, we're basically gods, we weren't asking because we can't deal with them, we were trying to spare a few lives of our new ally's faction. We've done this before too. A lot of people might not know this (since Bungie removed it from the game), but Mithrax was first encountered as a normal Fallen captain, and we worked together with him and at the end of the mission chose to spare him. And again, when we fought Caiatl's champion, Ignovun, Zavala told Caiatl to call off her Cabal so we didn't have to kill several hundred of them needlessly, but of course she was all "tHeY fIgHt FoR tHe GlOrY oF tHe CaBaL, i WiLl NoT dEnY tHeM tHaT hOnOr" which kind of subverted the whole premise of single combat but we at least tried.
The only time I can think of that we (maybe) killed someone who wasn't an active combatant was Uldren, and he was far from "just a lump of meat," that was both a highly personal revenge kill and somewhat justified as he was a serious threat. In fact, in a meta sense as well as being confirmed as canon in D.F.A.'s lore tab, it is extremely common practice for many players to simply run past enemies and not kill them whenever the game's mechanics don't literally force us to kill them to progress the mission. Despite being basically a sentient weapon of mass destruction, the guardian actually quite commonly tries to avoid violence when possible simply to avoid needless killing.
Oh also he's annoying and cringe.
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Good post, break it up a bit imo though
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What a load of pointless word spaghetti. You managed to say a lot and still say nothing, and then top it off with "Yeah, and he's cringe".
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Are you sure? Yes I ended it with a bit of a joke by juxtaposing an overanalysis of a single line from a side character in a seasonal storyline with an overly blunt "also he's cringe lolz" but the points I made are still valid. I gave no less than three (3) direct examples of the guardian canonically trying to avoid killing what amounts to literal hundreds of enemy combatants in an active war zone, as well as a frequent practice by actual players instead of the character that was so common that it actually became acknowledged as canon where we avoid unnecessary killing. [spoiler]Oh and also he's still annoying and cringe.[/spoiler]
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Just look at all the cut scenes that involve Cayde being engaged in combat and please tell me why I should think he didn't enjoy all the killing.
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I think aiming his criticism at Cayde would have worked a lot better. I wouldn't say he sadistically enjoyed killing but he at least didn't really take it that seriously and it might have actually gotten an emotional response from the player (as well as Ikora, who I believe was on the comms channel too) to have Immaru poke fun at the death of a widely beloved character.
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Cayde was a leader of the vanguard. Drifter talks about desecrating dead enemies, we know that guardians used to wear Eliksni bones as trophies. Guardians ain't angels, from different sources we know that members of the vanguard were involved in all types of stupid shenanigans. What he's saying is that we are sanctimonious.
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Yeah, he'd sure have a great point if the player character, who he says this to, was in any way even partly responsible for any of that. We aren't. The concept that all guardians are responsible for the misdeeds of other guardians is one that echoes some common rhetoric in real life that I not only wholly disagree with but actively despise. Furthermore, any accusations of sanctimony would be rather rich coming from Immaru who, as I laid out in my response to the post right below yours, is one of the most hypocritical characters I know of, blaming and criticizing others for the direct consequences of his own actions while either ignoring or not realizing his own part in making them happen.
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He is brutally honest and says yes - we do some nasty stuff. And now you're gladly benefitting from it while still maintaining moral superiority. We have also gotten our hands dirty in the past.
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I think his delivery is hypocritical considering he sided with the race literally built on genocide and THATS why I think it’s so funny. It could also be read as “you guys are just as bad as us” which is so devils advocate and snarky which fits him to a T.
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After reading some of the lore about him I agree, Immaru might simply be written to be a deeply hypocritical character with no self-awareness. He criticizes the guardian for killing Hive when that's pretty much a regular Saturday for the Hive and, I feel it's important to note, those are his Hive! We asked him to call them off so we wouldn't have to kill them and he refused. He also hates the guardians for killing Hive ghosts, saying "We lived with 'em. Saved 'em. Now they're ripping through us! Damn ungrateful, if you ask me…" when guardians are not killing their own ghosts, they are only killing enemy ghosts who joined the enemy faction and are actively reviving Hive guardians to fight against us. These consequences are completely his and the other Hive ghosts' faults. He then says "Everyone—Fallen, Vex, even Hive—every last one of 'em knows you don't shoot the medic. But nobody told these jokers apparently" when we were explicitly shown Fallen will shoot ghosts when Cayde died, and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Eris Morn's whole fireteam lose their ghosts when they went after Crota? And as for the Vex, Kabr, one of the guardians who died in the Vault of Glass, is quoted as saying "They have taken my Ghost" so it seems like all 3 factions he mentioned will actually go after the ghosts when they can.